1.6 Beta double clutch implementation.

-=Bora=-
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Re: 1.6 Beta double clutch implementation.

#11 Post by -=Bora=- » 11 Mar 2017 14:45

The clutch brake has nothing to do with the clutch except it being activated by the clutch pedal, I have replaced some on the Eaton twin splutter box ;) As I said, the 13speed Fuller/Road rangers I've driven had no clutch brake, it wasn't worn out, it wasn't there at all, remind you his is 25 years ago ;)
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natvander
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Re: 1.6 Beta double clutch implementation.

#12 Post by natvander » 22 Mar 2017 21:37

Max has their been any progress in this area?
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Max
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Re: 1.6 Beta double clutch implementation.

#13 Post by Max » 24 Mar 2017 15:09

nope. no time. sorry.
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Re: 1.6 Beta double clutch implementation.

#14 Post by theclumsygeek » 24 Mar 2017 22:09

So to be clear, the item Transmission input shaft simulation (double clutch) in the 1.6 update, is that activated by using g_hshift_synchronized 0? I believe this parameter was already existing before 1.6, though, based on older forum posts. Can we get an idea what changed with this update?

Driving with g_hshift_synchronized 0 has been impossible for me. Grinding gears left and right. I think everyone would benefit if SCS could provide an overview of how to properly shift with this setting (i.e. how it's implemented in the game as opposed to how it works IRL).
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Re: 1.6 Beta double clutch implementation.

#15 Post by natvander » 25 Mar 2017 02:39

I tried reducing the clutch range in the controller settings but that didn't really work on my first try. I might keep trying different settings to see if I can make it work somewhat realistically.
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Re: 1.6 Beta double clutch implementation.

#16 Post by Max » 25 Mar 2017 08:47

it works exactly as crashbox on eg. V3S.
technically younger solutions have synchronization and then automatic shifting. but it looks like that for US and australian market was made some technical changes in unsynchronized manual transmission we are simply not aware (not needed in EU as we do not use such transmissions), so its not the exact behavior as current eatons have.

base process of shifting is same, though. you have to match rpm of input and output shaft of transmission.
what changes in last update is that input shaft is simulated - before it was ignored and you was required to match engine and output shaft rpm, so you did not need to double clutch, in fact. right now you have to release clutch in the middle of shifting when matching rpm (through use of throttle) otherwise engine rpm wont transfer to input shaft rpm.
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Re: 1.6 Beta double clutch implementation.

#17 Post by natvander » 25 Mar 2017 11:24

Ok, so everything's clear...

It's currently set up for the following operation?:
1. Depress clutch
2. Move gear lever to neutral
3. Release clutch
4a. IF GEARING DOWN - depress accelerator, raising engine speed (input shaft) to match road speed (output shaft)
4b. IF GEARING UP - wait for input and output shaft speed to match (accelerator should not be required in most circumstances)
5. Depress clutch
6. Move gear lever to gear (at correct rpm)
7. Release clutch.

And to match input and output speed is by 'roughly' 400rpm per full gear under normal conditions (i.e. at 1,500 rpm in 5L, wait until rpm reaches 1,100 rpm for 6L).

If that's how it's supposed to work then we're part way there. The problem is that it doesn't appear to be working - at least with any consistency. Part of the problem is the requirement to fully depress the clutch on every gear change. You simply cannot fully depress the clutch, fully release, move to neutral, repeat at the required speed to make a successful gear change (certainly not without alot of gear crunching noise). I'll give it another good go tonight (headphones this time to save the family) but so far every time I've tried it I've reverted back to floating gears.

Is there any leeway either side of that 'exact rpm' where the gear change can occur?

Note that the Eatons have no synchro. There's no special wizardry lurking in the box. I think that's the only reason why trucks are still speced with them - easy maintenance.
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Re: 1.6 Beta double clutch implementation.

#18 Post by natvander » 26 Mar 2017 07:45

Max can we have the input and output rotational speeds displayed in the minicon? Just spent a few hours trying different things - sometimes I shift perfectly, then I do the same thing and it just won't shift at all. If I can see what the figures are saying at the same time it may give a bit more insight as to what's going on.
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Re: 1.6 Beta double clutch implementation.

#19 Post by Max » 26 Mar 2017 09:08

its that minor feature that i would like to not give it any such space.

but maybe we can use our telemetry: output shaft omega is based on speed, wheel size and differential ratio, so you can count exactly the value. input shaft is more tricky as currently there is no info about. just when you have released (or partially pressed when neutral) clutch it is synced with engine rpm. when you press clutch fully (almost) input shaft stays on same omega as it was before pressing clutch (or close to).

i can add some telemetry channels eventually, but it will be next update at best. if you want to play with telemetry, i can help you with more exact input shaft omega computation immediately (and maybe we could polish the feature to your liking before next update).

just note, that clutch is using full pedal range by default, IRL its much less - like half or third of pedal range affects effective clutch friction only (see clutch range setting in game).
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Re: 1.6 Beta double clutch implementation.

#20 Post by natvander » 26 Mar 2017 12:19

Thanks Max - to be honest my knowledge of telemetry is quite limited (apart from using it) but I'm willing to learn. I think if we can look at where/how the two rotational numbers match it will certainly help.

I've got my clutch range in the settings at around half. Anything below and it's a struggle to get moving with a heavy load and anything more pretty much has you hitting the full pedal range to change gears.

Apart from the obvious (i.e. separating the clutch plates), what input/function does the clutch have in relation to gear changes in game? The reason I ask is that often I don't succeed in actuating a gear change while using the clutch, yet succeed without the clutch at exactly the same point. As an example, going from 4th to 5th at 1,400rpm I'll be ready to shift to 5th at 1,000rpm. Sometimes it will slot in, yet sometimes all I get are gear teeth flying through my box. Blipping the engine and letting the rpm drop doesn't help either. If I remove the clutch (while teeth are flying) it will slot into gear guaranteed.

Would input shaft rpm be "engine rpm/desired gear ratio" or is that looking at it too simply? For example, I'm in 10th gear (ratio 2.28) at 1,500 rpm and want to shift to 12th gear (ratio 1.62). The output shaft is currently rotating at 658 rpm given the gear ratio (output shaft rotation before diff). I would need engine rpm to drop to 1,065 rpm to make the gear change (658 rpm x 1.62). Assuming of course a constant road speed during the gear change.

One suggestion concerning the advanced function sounds. Is it possible to have a delay in when the gear grinding sound occurs? Even half a second would help simulate finding the gear before you actually grind the gear. Obviously there's no force feedback in the gearstick to simulate the resistance felt when finding the gear.

I appreciate your efforts - it's quite a thing to simulate given there's no feedback from the device and not many 'real world' toys to play with.
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