1.6 Beta double clutch implementation.

[natvander]

I asked this elsewhere (in the 1.6 beta discussion) but it quickly got swallowed up in other posts so I though it best to give it it's own post.

How is double clutching implemented in game? Specifically, are you required to fully depress the clutch each time to make gear changes or can you depress the clutch halfway? I've tried halfway and have had no success. A 100% depression of the clutch sometimes works, but is not realistic and may lead to premature G27 wear and tear.

In reality, a truck with a non-synchro gearbox basically has a 3 stage clutch - friction, freeplay and clutch brake. When putting the truck into gear, you depress the clutch 100% to engage the clutch brake. In normal driving, this is the only time you fully engage the clutch. While driving, you only depress the clutch enough to remove the friction from the clutch plate - between 25% and 50% depression (varies between trucks and the age of the clutch). A full depression engages the clutch brake and causes premature wear. Freeplay sits beyond around 50% and is where you hold the clutch when stopped at lights to to keep the plates apart while not engaging the brake (if you don't take the truck out of gear).

A few videos for explanation:

This guy does a good job explaining it all (hauling a 3 trailer road train). He explains the clutch from around 1:16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcn2s7oRM3k

Another good explanation from 1:28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxdgp__GFZ8

This video does an ok job of explaining it, tho he gets freeplay and friction mixed up (mentioned in the video). Skip forward to 14:26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzB9vZ71v08

The difference in clutch operation between a synchro and non synchro box is one reason why in Australia manufacturers like DAF offer European trucks with Eaton Fuller boxes (drivers used to driving with non-synchro boxes in Kenworths etc would destroy a synchro box if they didn't change their driving style. Rather than change their style, just give them what they're used to).

[natvander]

Before this post gets lost as well... anyone?

[R0adrunner]

Interesting topic. Subscribing!

[-=Bora=-]

Ha, things have gotten alot easier. When I had the pleasure of driving Fuller/RoadRanger gearboxes they didn't have clutch brakes, had to wait and slightly grind it to get in gear when you took off

[Max]

its just basic simulation of unsynchronized gearbox. much like in V3S (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praga_V3S) - as those are only ones i could play and experiment with.
its extremely hard to find manual gearbox, and even more if it should be unsynchronized in europe these days. and yet more difficult is to persuade eventual owner to let me in and hurt the truck.
so i never seen truck with clutch brake and clutch construction you wrote. sorry.

[natvander]

Thanks for your reply Max. The description I gave is for all Eaton Fuller manual gearboxes, so relates to all the manual boxes in ATS. If you haven't watched the videos I linked I really believe it would be very beneficial to do so.

But in a nutshell, is it possible for a gearbox's behaviour to change depending on whether synchronised is turned on or off, and if turned off can the game detect how far the clutch has been pressed? Apart from being unrealistic, double clutching by always applying 100% clutch is very difficult given the speed at which rpm drops and is a recipe to damage your pedals. It's far easier to just float the gears.

g_hshifter_synchronized 1 should require a full clutch depression

g_hshifter_synchronized 0 should require a full clutch depression only when shifting from neutral to a gear while stationary, and from 25% to below 100% for gear changes.

[Max]

... and now it appears that instead of just skipping synchronization routine (which is function of g_hshift_synchronized 0) i had to make completely different clutch/transmission model ..

[natvander]

In the words of former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser - "Life wasn't meant to be easy" We know you like a challenge.

[jdkelley93]

I have given up with trying to double clutch with `g_hshift_synchronized 0`. It seems nearly impossible. RPMs drop way too fast. I find it a lot easier to just float the gears.

[EricF]

Ha, things have gotten alot easier. When I had the pleasure of driving Fuller/RoadRanger gearboxes they didn't have clutch brakes, had to wait and slightly grind it to get in gear when you took off

That happens when drivers push the clutch pedal all the way down, or at least too far, on shifts at road speed. It wears down/damages the clutch brake which is only meant for use to get into gear while at a standing stop.

Because clutches in heavy trucks last so long, company shops tend not to want to deal with abused clutch brakes until its time to do a complete clutch rebuild. So drivers get stuck with little or no clutch brake action until the truck is due to have a full teardown and replacement of the whole clutch. Owner-operators know how expensive a clutch job is, so they tend to take better care with the clutch brake to make it last!