RootKiller wrote:Unfortunately for now we will not change modding support dramatically as we cannot simply break backward compatibility. Modders are currently familiar with our current mechanisms of modding and changing it is not a good idea.
Thanks for the reply. I understand. But as I see it, there's not need for a sudden dramatic change. You can keep mod loading as it is now, while eventually implementing tools and changes that improve the modding system. In a few months all the new mods would use the new system.
MinecraftMarioGuy53 wrote:That wouldn't matter anyway, because if you subscribed to a mod, you can still change the load order. (As seen in screenshot)
You got me wrong, that's exactly what I was talking about. Meaning that the only "worry" for the normal user is to keep a correct load order
Exactly like it is now.
Sorry Katixa, no offense, but I disagree. If two different mods changes more than one of different same objects, loading order gives you nothing. You got the changes of one and lose that of the other. With potential disastrous consequences, because there might be other changes from both mods still present. With your attempt, you will provoke much more of these problems.
Same for changes to the map: there was a time not too long ago where you could only use one map mod and that was it. Ruled out any conflicts. Now we have sectors. Even with that simplified approach, it is hard work to interweave two maps or keep progress with map patches and DLCs. Hard work for the map modder. A map user can only use what is presented to him, and to use several maps which aren't developed in cooperation is a futile attempt. Loading order or not. But I'm glad it is possible now.
Releasing map mod changes based on object level would multiply this problem by magnitudes. Only one example: one person adds a road from west to east, another one a road from north to south. Where is the crossing? How to merge the landscapes near these roads?
This idea would only fly if you restrict the changes a modder could apply to a bare minimum. Sorry, don't want that.
No offense taken. I understand your concerns, but I'm afraid I don't agree. Bethesda has been using this system for years with Elder Scrolls series (from Morrowind to the current Skyrim), and I've been modding there for a lot of time, without any issues.
Load order indeed works because it just simply overwrittes a previous "something" changed by another mod. For instance you install a mod (A) that improves general truck values (brakes, suspension, engines...), and there's another mod (B) which improves engines, even more. You just need to make sure load order is A-B to keep engine values from B. There can be some incompatibilities in some special cases, indeed, but that's up the the user to care about, similar to what we do now. In many mods in Skyrim you can read author notes telling "not compatible with this, not compatible with that
", either because the creator knows, or because people eventually reported and (if not fixable), it's included on a list.
About the map, of course if you have two mods that add a road on same place, they will collide, or either crash the game. Again, here it's just a mod compatibility problem, and it's up to the mod user to take care of the situation. What is NOT correct, if you want to dive into Steam Workshop, is to have a map system that requires to have just "one mod", or just "one mod per sector". Try talking to normal players about "sectors".... sec-what?
A mod that improves city quality by adding walkers, decorations, etc. in all cities, should NOT be overwritten by another mod that adds a couple or forklifts on companies to make backing harder. Both should be able to co-exist. Currently we don't have those kind of mods here because people is discouraged both to create them, or install them, because having one means not having another. For instance I would gladly make changes to the map as I did in Haulin, GTS, ETS and ET, but I just don't want to miss any updates from patches.
Getting back to Skyrim, I don't know if you are into that game, but you can have a mod for instance that places a building somewhere, and another one that places another building just in front of it. In ETS2 that's impossible because a whole sector (and worse before, the whole map) is "the mod". There are of course cases where a player house is just in collision with another famous mod, and if enough people requests, maybe the modder agrees to move the building a bit, to make it compatible with the other mod. If not, players have to choose, one or the other, of course...
So yes, these collisions happen.. but only on certain cases with certain mods, and if you ask me, it's better than having a mod overwrite a whole sector (which by the way could have been updated by SCS on a patch and you won't see it).
I understand there can be a bit of "neophobia" when important changes come... but it's just that after working with a good and robust modding system, it scares me to think there will be a Workshop with this current system. It's not a bad system, don't get me wrong... all my respects to the team for creating it, taking care of it, and improving it... but it's just a bit... rudimentary? Not sure if that's the word to express it.