Freightliner Trucks Discussion Thread

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Max
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Re: Freightliner Trucks Discussion Thread

#1731 Post by Max » 22 Nov 2020 13:08

fyi, there are quite a lot of independent settings in game that mimic three different approaches to engine brake control.

there is foot knob (used in past), there is classical "american" double craddle switch (toggle switch + 3 state power switch), and there is "european" simple stick (positions including disabled state). game collects all these inputs and uses for engine brake. it is made so for everyone could set his/her favorite control style regardless of truck.

each interacts with CC in its own way.
"european" setup is expected to have retarder, thus do not use engine brake (explicit EB disables CC). "american" setup requires toggle switched on for using EB for CC purpose (as IRL).
trucks with "european" controls but without retarder were nor foreseen .. :)
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murdoch82
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Re: Freightliner Trucks Discussion Thread

#1732 Post by murdoch82 » 22 Nov 2020 13:16

I have now finally set up my game in ATS to use the engine break in a more realistic manner. I have 4 buttons bound for this now... had to sacrifice some things like hint up and down shift, not really needed anymore anyway, the transmissions are much better at doing what they are supposed to now. Depending a bit on the configuration. But if you pick a transmission that suites your style of driving it should be good. I use the Endurant in the Lonestar atm minute, it revs a bit high but seem to get decent fuel milage so I'm okey with that. 1350 rpms at 60 mph. And about 1400 ish at 65...
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J.Random
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Re: Freightliner Trucks Discussion Thread

#1733 Post by J.Random » 22 Nov 2020 17:33

@Max, I think you meant "interdependent" because the behaviour of certain keys changes depending on whether some other keys are set or not. Quite cleverly, I must admit. Especially since the "unforseen" configuration also works (unset the toggle key and set increase/decrease keys, done). Whoever did this part (and the wipers' controls, which cycle when it's only "wipers" key set and stop at maximum when "wipers back" is set) thought it through nicely.

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sga0617
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Re: Freightliner Trucks Discussion Thread

#1734 Post by sga0617 » 22 Nov 2020 18:11

Max wrote:
22 Nov 2020 13:08
fyi, there are quite a lot of independent settings in game that mimic three different approaches to engine brake control.

there is foot knob (used in past), there is classical "american" double craddle switch (toggle switch + 3 state power switch), and there is "european" simple stick (positions including disabled state). game collects all these inputs and uses for engine brake. it is made so for everyone could set his/her favorite control style regardless of truck.

each interacts with CC in its own way.
"european" setup is expected to have retarder, thus do not use engine brake (explicit EB disables CC). "american" setup requires toggle switched on for using EB for CC purpose (as IRL).
truck with "european" controls but without retarder were nor foreseen .. :)
There is still some improvement to be made in this matter, but I know it will come some time in the future.

The simulation of foot knob and double craddle switch is almost perfect at the moment, but the stick simulation still lacks some degree of functionality.

Talking about the 3 systems, there is still missing the LOW setting on the transmission, that directs the truck to downshift earlier under engine brake (This behaviour is analogue to the retarder's last position in ETS2 trucks like the Renault T.). This system is used by the W900, P389, T680, P579 (The 2 last ones until 2017, when Paccar introduced the column shifter to replace the Eaton shifter.) and it's also used by the current offer of Lonestar and all the other trucks from International.

On the other hand, the behaviour in trucks equipped with column shifter is far from realistic, especially using the CC. First, at the moment there is no way to define a correct behavior for engine brake downshift, it's either in all positions or nothing, but IRL it works very similar to the way the retarder definition is programed in the transmission file. For example, Paccar trucks from 2017 equipped with column shifter and the Macks have 3 positions without downshift and a 4th position is max engine brake, that should downshift to the governed speed. At the moment you can simulate this behavior using the retarder definition in the transmission def, but there comes the second problem, if you do this way, it will use a retarder with CC, which is completelly unrealistic.

Finally, in trucks equipped with column shifter, the operation of the engine brake should deactivate the CC, and the cruise control should use the engine brake the same way the trucks in ETS use the retardes, activating it on demand without having it activated, as opposed to the double craddle switch, where the engine brake does not kick off the CC when the switch is ON and it should be activated to be used by the CC.

Just to summarize:

Foot Knob = Current behavior is OK.
Double craddle switch = Engine brake behavior is ok, but the transmission still required the LOW position to be added to simulate the automatic downshift to governed speed while using the engine brake.
Column shifter stick = This should be tweaked to provide positions with and without downshift and the operation of the stick should kick off the CC.
CC with Fook knob or Double switch = OK.
CC with column stick = Engine brake should come on the same way the retatder comes on in ETS2, without requiring the EB to be activated by the driver.

In game trucks real Engine brake behaviour:
T680-W900-P389-P579 = Double craddle switch with transmission Low possition available on demand.
Mack Anthem = Stick with 3 positions without downshift and a 4th spring position for maximum engine brake (Downshift.).
International Lonestar = Stick with 3 positions without downshift and transmission Low position available on demand.
Western Star 49X - Freightliner Cascadia = Stick with 3 positions, all with downshift.

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J.Random
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Re: Freightliner Trucks Discussion Thread

#1735 Post by J.Random » 22 Nov 2020 19:07

> This behaviour is analogue to the retarder's last position in ETS2 trucks like the Renault T
That's the aux brake settings in engine config, I believe. Last digit in every row, iirc.

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sga0617
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Re: Freightliner Trucks Discussion Thread

#1736 Post by sga0617 » 22 Nov 2020 19:26

@J.Random Yes, but as I said, if you program it that way, even if you declare the retarder variable as 0, the cruise control will use the retarder instead the engine brake to control the downhill speed. What's needed to simulate the trucks with engine brake only, is an analogue way to program them, without the retarder variable involved, and this is not posible in the game at the moment.

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FierbetoN
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Re: Freightliner Trucks Discussion Thread

#1737 Post by FierbetoN » 22 Nov 2020 19:36

We really need more precise engine brake defs^.

it would also be cool to have a separate animation for engine brake strength. It could be used in the Lonestar interior, where for some reason there are both automatic (column shifter) and manual (first two switches on dash) engine brake controls, but the manual controls are used. I doubt it will be changed since there are plenty other mistakes that haven't been fixed on it.

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Trucker_71
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Re: Freightliner Trucks Discussion Thread

#1738 Post by Trucker_71 » 22 Nov 2020 19:57

@sga0617
Unless things have changed that dramatically since I retired, what you call a column shifter stick on a nothh American truck is actually a trailer brake handle. When you pull on it, the trailer brakes (only) activate. Maybe on the new fangled automatics there's a stick somewhere for the shifting. But the stick on the column has been a trailer brake since Christ was a cowboy.

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sga0617
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Re: Freightliner Trucks Discussion Thread

#1739 Post by sga0617 » 22 Nov 2020 20:07

@Trucker_71 Yes, it changed a lot, especially since 2017. The first 2 brands to adopt the engine brake selector in the steering column stick were freightliner and Volvo, with the Cascadia and VNL respectively. Then, in the recent years Paccar, Mack, Western Star and Navistar followed that design, some of them (Freightliner, Paccar, Navistar and Western Star.) even use the stick to control the Automated gearbox. Also, in the new trucks, except for internationals, the manual transmission models still use the steering wheel column Stick for the engine brake control.

That's why in the newer trucks you see the trailer brake as an independent stick mounted in the dashboard near the light switches, just for example, here is the Cascadia, where the trailer brake is te stick on the left of the parking brake and trailer supply knobs:
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J.Random
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Re: Freightliner Trucks Discussion Thread

#1740 Post by J.Random » 22 Nov 2020 21:30

@sga0617 Either you want CC to automatically toggle EB for you as needed, or I'm missing your point. CC already uses EB - if EB is enabled.

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