Poll: Choose (3) States you would like to see next

What state should be next

Kentucky
11
2%
Mississippi
30
6%
Iowa
101
19%
Tennessee
25
5%
South Dakota
97
19%
Louisiana
126
24%
North Dakota
46
9%
Illinois
84
16%
 
Total votes: 520

pigbrother
Posts: 3321
Joined: 03 Jun 2016 07:36
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Contact:

Re: Poll: Choose (2) States you would like to see next

#5461 Post by pigbrother » 27 Sep 2021 08:51

Those who talk so often about 1:2 or 1:1 better start learning to work with the map editor and try to recreate their hometown. The smaller, the better, not to feel overwhelmed. We're going to talk one month later when you barely managed to create your street, and that's the best case scenario.

AI sounds all fine and dandy until you understand it's just a buzzword and 99.99% of present day AI solutions are just millions of IF/ELSE statements stacked together in a trenchcoat and pretenting to be AI. One day we might have something so capable, but don't expect it anytime soon. Just like truly autonomous cars, they are just around the corner if the corner is 25 years away. :lol:
I have approximate knowledge of many things
User avatar
Vinnie Terranova
Posts: 5109
Joined: 09 Nov 2017 10:24
Location: Netherlands

Re: Poll: Choose (2) States you would like to see next

#5462 Post by Vinnie Terranova » 27 Sep 2021 10:13

One of the problems with a 1:2 or 1:5 scale is that SCS still has to make choices about what to include and what not to include, which undoubtly will lead to the same kind of discussions as we have now about missing content. So, yeah I prefer a 1:1 scale map. No, I don't think we'll get that in the next 10 years. And yes, I think this is possible in the far future.
Tristman
Posts: 1543
Joined: 17 Mar 2021 20:15
Location: Pizza Hut

Re: Poll: Choose (2) States you would like to see next

#5463 Post by Tristman » 27 Sep 2021 10:52

I think 1:1 is unnecessary. It might be the most realistic, but if we're still talking about a game, it's fine to sacrifice some realism for the purpose of fun. Allow some creative interpretation here or there. There's plenty of uninteresting or repetitive things you can cut out so you can focus on interesting things instead.
User avatar
Vinnie Terranova
Posts: 5109
Joined: 09 Nov 2017 10:24
Location: Netherlands

Re: Poll: Choose (2) States you would like to see next

#5464 Post by Vinnie Terranova » 27 Sep 2021 11:23

Yeah, but what is uninteresting for one person can be interesting for an other person...
pigbrother
Posts: 3321
Joined: 03 Jun 2016 07:36
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Contact:

Re: Poll: Choose (2) States you would like to see next

#5465 Post by pigbrother » 27 Sep 2021 11:59

It doesn’t matter, it won’t happen. I hope you do realise that Google, Microsoft or Apple have spend tens of billions on their mapping services just for some 2D maps. And you’re talking not about some lame and full of errors 3D enviroment as seen on Google Earth or Bing Maps, but a fully accurate and detailed 1:1 environment at street level like we have in game. Even one day we might create some majestic AI able to process highres satelite photos and enviromental 3D scans that doesn’t even exists right now, none of us we’ll be alive by then to enjoy it.
I have approximate knowledge of many things
User avatar
AlexxxF1
Posts: 555
Joined: 20 Oct 2020 04:50
Location: Belarus
Contact:

Re: Poll: Choose (2) States you would like to see next

#5466 Post by AlexxxF1 » 27 Sep 2021 12:01

even with 1:20 scale, we still get 1-2 DLC per year for ATS, when we need 3-4 DLC per year.

scale 1:1 )) LOL :D ) even with 1:10 scale this is 1-2 DLC in only 4 years.
it is 4 times more you need to create manually unique objects, so that the map does not look boring and monotonous. when many already complain about it even with a scale of 1:20 (that the same objects are used so many times :D )


which means that we will never get the whole USA :lol: , and you might not even dream of Canada or Mexico.
and it doesn't make sense at all for SCS for free to rework huge base maps(CA NV AZ ) if they were to scale 1:10.
Last edited by AlexxxF1 on 27 Sep 2021 13:26, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
flight50
Posts: 30151
Joined: 20 May 2017 03:33
Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth, Tx - USA

Re: Poll: Choose (2) States you would like to see next

#5467 Post by flight50 » 27 Sep 2021 12:44

ATS is a 15+ years project at the least. With the US, Canada and Mexico in the mix, there is no time for a 1:1 or anything beyond 1:20 no time soon. If there was any hope for a smaller scale, most of us won't be here to see it. 1:1 is better off if SCS did just a single city. If they manage to finish that, they add another city and link them perhaps with a single road just like now. Those 1:1 cities are 5+ year project themselves and I doubt SCS could sustain income for 5 straight years and still be able to pay their employees. SCS must have other projects released thru out the years to even consider a 1:1 map. That's a ton of work, no only for the mapper, but the asset guy would take a beating. They've have more work than the mapper at 1:1.
User avatar
TheAmir259
Posts: 283
Joined: 12 Sep 2018 12:51
Location: Malaysia
Contact:

Re: Poll: Choose (2) States you would like to see next

#5468 Post by TheAmir259 » 27 Sep 2021 13:38

I might've triggered the 1:1 scale discussion but that was not my intent at all. While i did say they could do a 1:1 with their next game, first of all, we don't know what it will be. Even the notion of either ETS2 or ATS getting a sequel is very far-fetched, and so is the idea of doing maps of a 1:1 scale.

Second, i know very well how painful 1:1 mapping is, i'm currently doing a train sim map and 1:1 is the least of my problems even there, so i will reinforce all the statements the others have said, in that 1:1 is very far-fetched if not impossible with our current trucksims, and if anyone dreams of wanting a 1:1 map, i'd recommend them trying to actually make one such map first before even talking.

Third, my point in that comment was that i am very against having different scaling for the east coast which will make for very ugly inconsistencies, nor is the idea of tunnel-vision/portals or such after crossing the Mississippi any different. The latter reminds me of mobile trucksims and their chunkloading-like ways due to limitations of the mobile platform. If any changes in scaling is ever to be done, even for the sake of east coast, implementation must be done as a whole, which means the west coast must be reworked too. We've seen this once, when the game was still in its early stages, with a lot of bad/misaligned-looking roads, which was back in update 1.5, but the question is could they afford another one, when we've got 10 states already as it currently is?
Two wrongs don't make a right, three lefts...do :D
User avatar
oldmanclippy
Posts: 5377
Joined: 15 Jul 2020 02:23
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Contact:

Re: Poll: Choose (2) States you would like to see next

#5469 Post by oldmanclippy » 27 Sep 2021 13:47

Madkine wrote: 27 Sep 2021 08:38 A single city at 1:2 would probably take their entire current mapping teams 5 years or more to build.
If you were going to do this, you'd release a small portion of the city up front and extra area's would be DLC.
And I think you'd be better off at 1:5 rather than 1:2. 1:2 is still too close to real life (modelling every second building), whereas 1:5 is different enough to be able to recognise individual buildings but not expect every building to be in the game.
I think you're overestimating the workload. At 1:2 for example the Denver metropolitan area (defined by the E-470 loop, so not just the city itself but all its suburbs too) is about 100 square miles. Colorado at 1:20 is about 260. If they did it at a similar density level as Colorado, that'd be maybe 1-2 years with a similar sized team since city mapping is more intensive than the diversity in environments and roads that a whole state brings.

BUT the whole area isn't downtown, the downtown area is a tiny tiny fraction of it, the rest is made of neighborhoods and suburbs and industrial zones and the airport and the outskirts. Not all of it would be so intensive. Grand Junction to Burlington in-game now is about 20 miles long. I-70 in this hypothetical Denver game would be about 10-12 and wouldn't include the surely very difficult to map Glenwood Canyon. So the assets (and the engine of course but I'm operating under the assumption that the engine would improve) would probably be the bottleneck, not the mapping.

1:5 would make the entire Denver area a measly ~16 sq mi. Not nearly enough to make the project worthwhile IMO. That's the size of Skyrim, but Skyrim doesn't have you traversing it in a semi-truck going 65mph, and Skyrim has many orders of magnitude more detail than a trucksim map needs. You'd have to crank up the density so much to make it worth it that you'd have all the major roads crammed next to each other with no room for any smaller local roads. It just wouldn't work. Heck the Denver metropolitan area in-game right now is about 2 miles from end to end by my back of the napkin estimate. So 1:5 would only double its size.
blog screenshot IRL maps: Greece | Nordic Horizons | see profile for link to Germany cities and Switzerland rework maps
prediction maps: Greece | ATS 2024-2025 DLCs
research map: Upper Midwest (work in progress)
User avatar
Vinnie Terranova
Posts: 5109
Joined: 09 Nov 2017 10:24
Location: Netherlands

Re: Poll: Choose (2) States you would like to see next

#5470 Post by Vinnie Terranova » 27 Sep 2021 14:21

Hardcrafting 3D buildings costs a lot of time. But what if you somehow can automate that proces, for instance by scanning real buildings? Then it would take much less time.

Another thing: there is already a highly detailed 2D map available (openstreetmap.org) which is opensource and also includes a contour map (for mountains and road elevation), a transport map, and a public transport map... It even shows traffic lights (even new ones which were placed a few weeks ago are already visible on the map). With all those details openstreetmap.org could be used as a starting point; a base layer for the 1:1 ATS world.

These are just two examples of possibilities that might be used in the future to take over work from the mappers and asset creators. Ofcourse I'm not talking about the near future; I'm just talking about opportunities instead of impossibilities.
Post Reply

Return to “General discussion about the game”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests