This guy don't like ATS or SCS?

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bobgrey1997
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This guy don't like ATS or SCS?

#1 Post by bobgrey1997 » 27 Oct 2017 20:14

Check out this rant video!
[WARNING}: BEWARE OF LANGUAGE [NOT SAFE FOR WORK]
Made my day!
Also, be sure to read up on my "counter-rant" in the comments! How did I do?
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Mephic
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Re: This guy don't like ATS or SCS?

#2 Post by Mephic » 27 Oct 2017 20:21

I do love ATS but it's 380 hrs in ETS2 vs 30 hrs in ATS.

ATS is neglected, not only by SCS but also because there is no ProMods for now.

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Re: This guy don't like ATS or SCS?

#3 Post by CARL1992 » 27 Oct 2017 20:24

they have 2 teams working for both games

where is ATS being neglected ?!
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bobgrey1997
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Re: This guy don't like ATS or SCS?

#4 Post by bobgrey1997 » 27 Oct 2017 21:06

Aren't the ProMods team from north-eastern Europe? I didn't think that they would do an ATS version. Did they ever announce anything about it?

Also, if you don't mind, could you explain why you thing that ATS is neglected in terms of development? I do not mean to start and argument or cause trouble, just curios.
For example, I think ATS is just fine because...
1: The developers still release regular updates. While small, the updates do still show that SCS does care about the game's quality and players' requests.
2: Rescale. While 1:20 is what ETS2 already is, ATS was never meant to be the same anyway. ATS was just released as a marketing "experiment" to see how popular it could get. Once the audience grew and also did the demand for a larger scale, SCS made an update.
3: Trucks. While ATS only has four trucks and ETS2 has more than I even care to start tying to count, I don't blame SCS, I blame the greed and strictness of American corporate and legal organizations. They are refusing to give SCS rights to use their name in ATS because of how it may make their own trucks, and company overall, look. If anyone is neglecting ATS in terms of trucks, it would be the manufacturers.
4: The lack of players in ATS is more due, in my opinion, to the unique American road system and laws. The United States has a very different system for signs, traffic lights, road lines, road-side structures, on-road constructions, legal vehicle use, legal vehicle accessories, etc. All of this is unfamiliar to many who are not from the U.S. Europe, however, uses a standard similar to the rest of the world, making it more widely familiar. Obviously, more people are from places outside the U.S. than those from in the U.S. This reflects directly into a game's player-base. The majority of those that buy from SCS are not from the United States, so they are less familiar with American standards than they are with European standards. For example, as I stated in my "counter-rant" on that YouTube page, I do not play ETS2, even though it clearly has WAY MORE content, in both SCS updates and DLC and in mods. I have about 1,500 hours in ATS, but only 91 in ETS2. This is because I am more familiar with the U.S. and it's roads and legal system. I don't like Europe with it's roads. I have had a few chances to permanently move there (and two to move to Japan) and have had even more chances to go and visit, but turned all of them down because I hate even thinking about having to drive anywhere on those roads! ETS2 is not a bad, dead, or neglected game to me, I just don't like playing it because I don't know how to drive those roads.

Now, just to show that I am not bashing those who say anything bad about ATS:
Here is what I do not like about it:
I do not like the amount of desert environment. I know that it takes time to make more map with different environments, but I simply am sick of sand and dirt. I want more mountains, forests, lakes, cities, and suburbs. I am looking forward to Oregon/Washington and Texas for this exact reason.
I also simply hate the lack of variety in roads and prefabs. Every intersection you pull up to has the same things: a 90 degree turn, sometimes two (4-way) , a pole with a light on the side, and one (or two) on top with an odd, sharp, downward slop toward the main vertical pole, with a street light on top. Also, it is always either 1-1 crossing a 1-1, a 1-1 crossing 2-1-2, a 1-1 crossing a 2-2, a 2-2 crossing 2-2 or a 2-1-2 crossing 2-1-2. With the new update, you also get 1-1 crossing 1-1-1 and 1-1-1 crossing a 1-1-1. Where are the 2-1-2 crossing 1-1-1 or 2-2 crossing the 2-1-2 or 1-1-1? Where are the odd angled junctions with different kinds of roads on each side, like a 2-1-2 meeting a 2-2 on the right, 1-1 on the left- and 1-1-1 straight ahead? What about stoplights without the street light? Keep in mind, this is reasonable because all of these custom prefabs would take a while to build. On that note, I wish we had a new prefabs system that would be based on the red (anchor) node, as usual, but on the four "note settings" in the Item Properties, it would be nice to have a "road" option (perhaps under "corner") that would allow you to change what kind of road is attached there and another setting under it called "angle offset" or something, with "90" being the default (180 for the straight ahead road) where you could change it to have that road come in at an angle. (New Feature Wish list/Suggestion idea!)
I also don't like how the AI acts as if it is on rails, following perfect lines directly behind each other. It is clearly noticeable when sitting at a junction. I wish that they would drive with an "offset" from the line. Could be possible in a def .sii file. For example:
in "traffil_lane.sii

Code: Select all

traffic_lane_data : traffic_lane.road.local
{
	speed_class: local_road

	spawn_count_limit_modifier: 0.3
	spawn_frequency_modifier: 0.2
}
could be changed to

Code: Select all

traffic_lane_data : traffic_lane.road.local
{
	speed_class: local_road

	spawn_count_limit_modifier: 0.3
	spawn_frequency_modifier: 0.2
	deviation_offset: .75
}
where "deviation_offset: .75" would mean that AI follows the lines as they are within a .75 meter margin on either side. (Another Feature Wish list/Suggestion Idea!)

So, there is why I like ATS and why I think it is fine in terms of development, as well as some ideas to make it even better.
So, what are your reasons for saying it is not doing so well? Again, I am not trying to cause issues, just wanting some healthy feedback. The guy in the video was not offering healthy feedback, but rather just bashing the game for what it doesn't have.
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flight50
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Re: This guy don't like ATS or SCS?

#5 Post by flight50 » 28 Oct 2017 00:16

To be honest, he does have some valid points. I do not agree with all his words but you have to admit, he has some valid points. I for one can relate because I was at 60-75% of his mind set. He is entitled to his opinion though. As upset as he is, he is not completely eliminating ATS. He is scaling back. I did the exact same thing. Actually I haven't played since Feb. when NM was announced so I stopped playing until it is released. Then heavy haul and doubles was announced. I was like goodie goodie. More reason for me to stay away til I had all three. I still have not seen all of the rescale additions. I love ATS, ET2 just has more roads to travel so I flocked to it to get my trucking fix. So instead of me making rant threads and videos, I choose to satisfy my trucking needs with ET2 for the time being. I am still supporting SCS which is the main point. The income still stays under their umbrella. If ET2 has to carry the load til ATS really kicks in, I think SCS will ride with it as long as they don't start seeing profit losses. I also play F1 racing and city builder game along with my PS4 rgp games and sports games. I didn't have a choice but to temporarily abandon ATS. I want ATS to be so successful that I had to force myself to break from it. I about heavy haul and haven't even hauled. If it had a oversized dlc come out before NM, I'd buy that too so that SCS can progress with ATS. So instead of frustrating myself with the lack of content for ATS, I too scaled back. I will support every single trailer and state dlc that ATS has to offer. I can care less about paints, rims and steering wheels. I invested in a new gaming chair, a mega shifter and an A.S.P controller all because of ATS. So I am all in for ATS. But yeah, I understand his frustration. I don't agree with it all but I get it.

Bobgrey, your 1-4 points where pretty much spot on and I agree with all your points for sure.
1) I would not say ATS is neglected either. SCS is not an American company. It is a given that a European company would cater more to Europe. I believe in the video it was mentioned that ATS sold 750k copies. Well ET2 has 4.4m+ up todate. Not even close. ET2 is 5 years old compared to ATS not even 2 years old yet. ET2 took time to grow itself. The ET2 community went thru the same thing ATS is going thru right now I am sure. But there are to many unfair comparisons made between the two games. If two different companies made these titles and at the same time, then yes. Compare away. But its being made out that these two titles are competing against each other. STOP IT. SCS is supporting both.

2) 100% agree. The rescale took what 5-6 months. That took time and resources as it does happen over night or in a month or two. The reworked a lot and added a lot. I do however agree on the video though when he said it should have been done at 1:20 to start. ET2 didn't start at 1:35 I am sure. SCS should have took note of that. But I also agree with you all the way. I really believe that ATS was an experiment. An experiment in which they stomped the breaks and made it 1:20 before it got too late. I really think SCS doubted the success of ATS. Either way, 1:20 still should have been the starting point. Better sooner than later though. The game is set now, as the scale isn't the issue anymore so we can all move on from the rescale issue. I think ATS has maddddd potential. Just as much as ET2 in fact. Two totally different games/setups. But the biggest gap is that 4.4m vs 750k. As ATS grows, that 750k will swell. More of the globe will get involved. Provide that 1/3 of the U.S. covered as I have stated in other threads and the ATS growth will really kick in.

3) Not an SCS issue. No matter how frustrated we are, it is out of SCS's hands.....period. The American truck companies are more of a pita than Europe apparently. Every thing is about licenses here. No question about it. Lawyers and crap are all in the mix. Now what we don't know are specifics to the hold up. Is it money necessary for licenses, is it the companies not liking a European developer, are they concerned about image of their trucks in the game, do they not want a game to market them. Heck we don't know. But from a marketing stand point, the American companies, I hate to say it, but they are idiots. That is a way to market your truck. If by being in ATS sold just one......just one truck because of this game, that is easy money in the manufactures pocket all because of a video game.

4)100% agree here to. Only reason I play ET2 is because it is a trucking sim just as ATS as its an option with more content. I do not like the Euro truck styles at all. I don't like the roads or traffic laws over there. The hwys are way too narrow. The interstates on and off ramps are a pain to play. Now I don't know if this in inaccuracies of the game or if it is real life, but I don't like it in ET2 but I deal with it. I can't navigate around because I don't know where the cities are on a map without looking at a map. Not and issue in ATS. I know where all the major cities are and in what state. ET2 players are doing the same thing as you and I are thinking. Why play ATS if I don't understand the laws and roads. I am not familiar with ET2 by any means as their roads, their setup is not to my liking. I do think that as ATS grows, more will give it a chance though just as I have given ET2 that chance. It's just something different. Once NM drops, ET2 will be on the backburner for me. Even when Italy comes out, I will purchase it but I won't play it often. I know its there when I need a change of pace if I get bored with ATS. I also have F1 2017 to take my mind away from trucking so that I won't get burned out. I have a blast with it F1. So between SCS games and Codemasters, I am good. But if or when I get bored with either ATS or ET2 in there end of 2017 status, 2018 will bring another state eventually and or trailer packs I am sure. Thus pumping life back in the game for us once again. In regards to familiarity, two major difference makers for me are real company names and real gas station names. These are game changes for me as they make ATS much more realistic. I can relate to these names. I may know only 2% of the European companies compared to perhaps 95% of U.S. companies. Familiarity is huge. So that 4.4m....well they perhaps can not relate just as we Americans can not relate to Europe. Simpy as that really, lol.

In regards to the video, I would not say ATS is dead. There was a point when I did sort of feel that way without content being released at a much faster rate. I did fear this faith though. I try not to run many mods as I don't want to depend on them to make the game. I refuse to do map mods though. That is the biggest rant most people have is lack of a map. Getting tired of traveling the same old roads. Perhaps true in most cases but all we can do is wait. No matter what though, people will still compare ATS with ET2. When ATS hits 5 years old, ET2 will be 8 years old. The same complaint will still happen. The only way to catch ATS up, is to hire more staff or pull everyone over to ATS for 2-3 years to get ATS on par with ET2 in regards to land mass covered. Sure that will tee off the ET2 crowd maybe but ET2 can survive that hit. Those who truly care of ATS's success, would understand that ATS needs to catch up. I can not say and I will not say that ATS is neglected though. Support is provided, just not to the degree that satisfies all. One can not judge solely based on dlc and that is what the video stated. From here on out, what one game gets the other will get. SCS is proving that. One will obviously get it first.

But yeah, the rant video is more or less venting in a nutshell. I have done it myself. Not to the degree that he has but like I said, I can relate to some of his words. Once NM and 1.29 hits, I will abandon ET2 and go to ATS for quite a while. The North map team is in place now. They are up to speed by now hopefully. One of two things will happen in 2018. Both the North and the East teams will work on separate states and this time next year, we will get 2 states possibly. Or both teams will tag team one state and get it out twice as fast as one state. We may see the next state after NM next summer and the following state in Nov or December. Of course it does depend on the state(s) being worked on. But I am optimistic about 2018. At the latest, I think will will have 2 more states before Q1 2019 ends. Best case we get 3 states by 2019 if less dense states like Idaho, Montana and Wyoming is in the mix to get us that 3rd state. Oregon, Washington and Colorado could take as long as NM. If SCS still wants to try an external team, give the Idaho, Montana or Wyoming. Better yet, give them one of the Plains states or even an Eastern state that is not even connected. This way, the non-adjacent state won't hold up anything and they can be given more time to complete than an adjacent state needing to connect to the base map and NM. But if Texas is next, lol. Forget about it. It could take 12-18 months to release. The external team could do that one and SCS in house team can do Oregon and Utah next.
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bobgrey1997
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Re: This guy don't like ATS or SCS?

#6 Post by bobgrey1997 » 28 Oct 2017 01:32

flight50 wrote:
28 Oct 2017 00:16
He is entitled to his opinion though.
Yes, he is.
flight50 wrote:
28 Oct 2017 00:16
ET2 is 5 years old compared to ATS not even 2 years old yet. ET2 took time to grow itself. The ET2 community went thru the same thing ATS is going thru right now I am sure. But there are to many unfair comparisons made between the two games. If two different companies made these titles and at the same time, then yes. Compare away. But its being made out that these two titles are competing against each other. STOP IT. SCS is supporting both.
EXACTLY!
flight50 wrote:
28 Oct 2017 00:16
from a marketing stand point, the American companies, I hate to say it, but they are idiots. That is a way to market your truck. If by being in ATS sold just one......just one truck because of this game, that is easy money in the manufactures pocket all because of a video game.
"Welcome to the good ole' U S of A! Enjoy our warm, welcoming, idiotic, greedy hospitality!" :lol:
flight50 wrote:
28 Oct 2017 00:16
...I don't like it in ET2 but I deal with it. I can't navigate around because I don't know where the cities are on a map without looking at a map. Not and issue in ATS. I know where all the major cities are and in what state. [...] I may know only 2% of the European companies compared to perhaps 95% of U.S. companies. Familiarity is huge.
I know what you mean! I know every bit of every Interstate and U.S. highways in the continental United States, I know every bit of every State Highway Arkansas and most State Highways in the other States, and I know every street, road, highway, parking lot, and alleyway in the entire State of Arkansas. Knowing all of this, I know where just about every town in the country is! I can basically give you directions from any address in Arkansas to any town in the country (not the addresses in all of the though) and even what lane to be in at each spot and when to merge to another lane based on interchanges, junctions, and traffic depending on location and time of day! (And day of the year.) So, yeah, I think one could safely say that I am familiar with the U.S...
flight50 wrote:
28 Oct 2017 00:16
When ATS hits 5 years old, ET2 will be 8 years old. The same complaint will still happen.
Some people...
flight50 wrote:
28 Oct 2017 00:16
I try not to run many mods as I don't want to depend on them to make the game. I refuse to do map mods though. That is the biggest rant most people have is lack of a map.
No map mods?

To pass the time waiting for new content, you play ETS2.
To pass the time waiting for new content, I make it. I have been working for the past several months on a complete overhaul mod to put the game in a 1:1 Arkansas, bringing new trucks (and other drivable vehicles), new buildings, new job locations, new prefabs for job locations, new roads, new road prefabs, new vegetation and terrain, new AI vehicles, new AI code, new companies, and new economy. Basically, it won't be "...Truck Simulator", but rather "Driving Jobs in Arkansas"! You will be able to buy trucks and other vehicles to do various kinds of work. For example, you could buy yourself a pickup and do general small-scale hauling with the bed or a trailer. Or buy a car and do typical day-to-day deliveries around a city. Working on all of this really passes the time for me!

Thank you for your detailed view on ATS, SCS, and even ETS2! This is what I like; a good, calm, conversation about we like and don't like about these games. You seem to like ATS mainly for familiarity of roads and environments, but ETS2 for amount of content. You also like to use a few mods as possible as to not rely on them.
I have similar views, but I can't bring myself to play much ETS2 due to the lack of familiarity. The amount of content just can't outweigh it. I also like to make mods as my solution to lack of content.
Happy Truck Simulator playing!
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Lombra
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Re: This guy don't like ATS or SCS?

#7 Post by Lombra » 28 Oct 2017 03:22

ATS isn't neglected, but I do think there are a few minor issues. Map development is clearly proceeding at an acceptable rate. (at least as fast as ETS) It's just that the starting map is small "again" compared to ETS which has several DLCs by now. The licensing issue is unfortunate, and while mostly beyond the control of SCS, it is still a shortcoming of the game. My main issue though, is the lack of DLC parity with ETS. Where are the cabin accessories, the window flags, the high power cargo and the country paint jobs?

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bobgrey1997
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Re: This guy don't like ATS or SCS?

#8 Post by bobgrey1997 » 28 Oct 2017 03:36

Lombra wrote:
28 Oct 2017 03:22
Where are the cabin accessories, the window flags, the high power cargo and the country paint jobs?
Now this is the single most valid point I have heard against ATS. I agree that cabin accessories, flags, new cargo, and new paints would be nice, however:
Cabin accessories: the biggest part of that in ETS2 is the windshield curtains and stickers, however, these are illegal in most of the U.S., so SCS decided not to include them. I would still like to see the little cups, books, laptops, etc inside the truck.
Window flags? Also illegal in most states.
Paint jobs? I personally care less. I never buy them. While I love what SCS does as a developer, I refuse to buy paint job DLC. To me, they are worth no mate than 5-10cents. A paint job pack has what, 20 skins? At most? These are files made (probably) in Photoshop. That is the only reason they can have for charging 99cents; to cover the monthly cost of a Photoshop license. However, they could just use Paint.net. it is compatible with every format the Photoshop is, and it has the exact same tools (just named differently and work a bit different). And it's free.
High Power Cargo: now here we go! Something in ETS2 that I actually find amazing! I wouldn't mind flying down the Interstante with some of that right behind me! "Move out the way! Outta te wah before I run you down! Move it! Move it! Move!"

By the way, would "Country paint jobs" here refers to "State paint jobs"? I can only imagine a truck with an Arkansas paint job...
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angrybirdseller
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Re: This guy don't like ATS or SCS?

#9 Post by angrybirdseller » 28 Oct 2017 03:52

Always haters like Snoop Dog says, like both ETS2 and ATS each have thier own styles

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bobgrey1997
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Re: This guy don't like ATS or SCS?

#10 Post by bobgrey1997 » 28 Oct 2017 03:58

True. I like both games, I just can't bring myself to play ETS2 anymore because of how European roads and regulations are. I unfamiliar with it, so I get too confused. For example, I pull up to a junction, see a stop line, but instead of a stop sogn, there is this little yellow diamond in the middle of a larger white diamond. Is this a European stop sign? A yield sign? A "oh, look! DIAMONDS!" sign?
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