FMOD Discussion [ATS]

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mackintosh
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Re: FMOD Discussion

#41 Post by mackintosh » 18 Jan 2020 10:16

ShirBlackspots wrote:
18 Jan 2020 04:24
So, what you are saying is that with SCS improving the game with FMOD, and makes sounds, well, sound like they're supposed to, you'll rage quit.
Yes, that is precisely what I’m saying. I’ve talked about this subject for many years in a lot of posts. I suppose I can talk about it again.
Sound makes up at least half of the simulation experience for me. I appreciate that a lot of people experience this game on potato speakers or “gaming” headphones and couldn’t care any less. Well, I do care and while I’m not an audiophile by any stretch of the imagination, I do have the hardware that lends itself to the enjoyment of subtleties in a sound mix.

Most games, especially simulators, have terrible sounds. Flight Simulator did. Train Simulator does, as does Farming Sim, just to name a few. All these games however made modding those sounds relatively easy, which allowed the community to supplement the developers’ laziness or ineptitude. Armstrong Powerhouse are a prime example of how a gifted sound engineer can literally transform the gaming experience.

Changing the sound engine, while obviously opening the game to a world of opportunity, will not magically make engine sounds better. That still falls to the people behind the console. Those people have time and time again proven that they are incapable of delivering a proper sound engine mix. How do we know this? We know this because members of our community have consistently delivered far better sounding mixes – and they have done this with the use of both professional recording equipment and by sampling YouTube videos. If a modder can deliver a better engine sound basing his work on a remix of SCS sounds and a YouTube video than a professional whose only job is to do the same thing, this leads me to believe that fmod or no fmod, the end product is still going to be deficient.

SCS are also lazy. They reuse sounds between trucks. Sounds that are completely different and very often specific to a given truck model or a manufacturer. I suspect this business will continue unabated simply due to development time constraints or other concerns. It is also very unlikely that SCS will deliver multiple engine varieties between truck models for the same reasons, with the added wrinkle of any approval and licensing issues that may also get in the way.

Modders do not have such constraints. They are free to make the sounds as accurate as their skills allow. They give us many engine types to choose from, allowing us to tailor our experience right down to a specific engine configuration. We will never get this granularity from SCS.

So yes, long story short – if fmod kills sound modding, I will no longer have an interest in this game going forward, because I do not trust the people involved are capable of delivering a proper sound mix, irrespective of sound engine used. At the end of the day, a lawnmower will still sound like a lawnmower, regardless of whether your window is open or not.

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Leen
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Re: FMOD Discussion

#42 Post by Leen » 18 Jan 2020 10:58

"If" don't exist but yes the sound of the truck engines can make the game or destroy the game which means without a realistic engine sound I can't play this simulator, but we don't know anything what's the new sound sounds like so before we judge wait and see what happens and till that time you can use the "if" word a thousand times but it would mean nothing and it bring you nothing.

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xyzan
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Re: FMOD Discussion

#43 Post by xyzan » 18 Jan 2020 11:00

Personally I want to believe that they knew sound system will change, so they put minimum effort into sounds in current trucks.

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lamanorbu
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Re: FMOD Discussion

#44 Post by lamanorbu » 18 Jan 2020 11:34

@xyzan that, plus the fact that they did not have any professional recording available for american trucks.

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FAres
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Re: FMOD Discussion

#45 Post by FAres » 18 Jan 2020 13:11

Let's be honest , most of the sound mods available don't even come close to a very realistic truck engine sound .

I have Yamaha speakers , not audiophile speakers grade whatsoever but they're very accurate.
I work at a Truck Factory ( Hyundai trucks and Buses North Africa ) and I used to work for Renault Trucks dealership so yes I'm familiar with Engine sounds very well.

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Robinicus
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Re: FMOD Discussion

#46 Post by Robinicus » 18 Jan 2020 14:03

.
Last edited by Robinicus on 21 Feb 2020 20:21, edited 1 time in total.
MS Flight Sim 2020 - Alpha test team - Whoot! We finally moved to closed beta in prep for August 18th release!

Don't PM me for FMOD help, ask on the forum so others can learn from it as well

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Sametbey2
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Re: FMOD Discussion

#47 Post by Sametbey2 » 18 Jan 2020 15:37

Didn't a Cummins engine sample for the SCS F-MOD?

Some newbie driver
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Re: FMOD Discussion

#48 Post by Some newbie driver » 18 Jan 2020 16:24

Let's start by the fact (I could bet my life into it) that most of the players have never been inside a big truck's cab, even as a passenger (and I'm already considering that a game like this has lot of truck-related people paying it). So, to count what most people could consider "more realistic" has no sense at all; amount of subscribers on a sound mod says nothing about real-world depiction. At most, those numbers can talk about what sounds do please most people or what sounds match better with their expectations.

And then we must understand that, no matter how good could an SCS sound or a mod sound; at the end, everybody's experience of those sound will be affected by their own OS settings, audio driver settings, speakers physical quality and position and by the own player hearing. We could talk about specific empiric facts; like as how SCS actually reuses same sounds for different engines and/or trucks. We could talk about if the game depicts or not sound changes due road condition/situation. We can talk about environment sounds that the game obviously lack (like trains). We could demand thinks like that to be improved. But it's a useless conversation to start talking about if a truck sounds in-game like a lawnmower or not; when most players had never been inside a truck neither used a lawnmower in their flat in the middle of any city. When no one of us share computer, audio settings, speakers neither our hearing condition.

FMOD is a tool, one that will allow SCS and (supposedly) also moders to create sounds with lots more of details and parameters to try to simulate reality. The only I expect and request to SCS is that they use that tool, better than actual one, to improve the richness and variety of sound sources in the game. It takes nowhere to start talking about if the resulting sounds are "realistic enough" or "better/worse than the mod XXXX"; because a conversation of that kind will be driven by personal biases and impossible to compare subjective perceptions. So, at the end, everybody will do what they want and there will be no "better" option.

Regards
Last edited by Some newbie driver on 18 Jan 2020 19:56, edited 1 time in total.

syscrh
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Re: FMOD Discussion

#49 Post by syscrh » 18 Jan 2020 16:27

Personally I am very sceptical about this change. I have adapted and tweaked several sound mods for my "favourite" engines (CAT 3406/3408, NTC-400, 8V-92, etc.) to fit the truck mods I use (classic trucks only). I always enjoyed the simple process of tweaking the volumes (I have normalized all sound mods from different authors, so they have equal loudness; furthermore I have lowered turbo sounds to avoid getting a headache) and other sound parameters, without having to install and learn yet another software (besides a text editor).

Reading through this thread, it sounds like
- I will loose the ability to use my existing sound mods (-> the realism of driving classic trucks will be gone)
- it will probably take lots of time (if it will ever happen) to get new sound mods for these classic engines
- and if there will ever be new sound mods, it will be nearly impossible to tweak them to my own preferences (especially if the mod author ships the compiled sound files only and doesn't include the raw FMOD data)
- I need to use a proprietary Windows-only (?) tool to create or modify sound mods (it's bad enough, that the map editor is Windows-only, but until now it was at least possible to create all other kinds of mods with Linux)

I am definitely all in for more and improved sound effects, but not at all costs ...

Please correct me if I misinterpreted anything or maybe SCS can shed some light on the future of sound mods?

Until then: If I understand this thread correctly, the temptation to upgrade my games past 1.35 will be lower than ever ...
Last edited by syscrh on 18 Jan 2020 17:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Max
SCS Software
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Re: FMOD Discussion

#50 Post by Max » 18 Jan 2020 17:28

ok, some clarifications then:

old sound mods will definitely stop working. there is no meaningful way how to load them and run-time convert them to new system. the game should be able to read them and properly ignore, though (aka not crash).
but sounds will be modable, of course. moders just have to learn the FMOD-way to use its abilities to most profit (for this very same reason it is also not good idea to make any one to one conversion tool). but you should not be afraid, there will be guides (complete truck samples can be easily switched and tuned in like 0.5 to 1 day) and also there will be beta period so everyone interested could learn before true release (and we may yet update the system based on feedback). for now you can check FMOD Studio (it exists for all main platforms).

although samples we are using are same basically, some additional effects FMOD gives us made them better already. there will also be few new related features, hopefully. FMOD is tool we want to use to improve the game and our long term plans are not small.
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