Driving with no navigation

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Nic Kowalski
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Re: Driving with no navigation

#31 Post by Nic Kowalski » 16 Apr 2020 08:47

nautofon wrote:
15 Apr 2020 20:49
@Nic Kowalski, since you just moved to Ontario: When you get a chance, would you please try and find the Gallon gas station that is closest to Ontario? According to the wiki page for Gallon Oil, there should be one somewhere in eastern Oregon, but I couldn't immediately find it. I'm not even sure there is a Gallon gas station around there—the wiki could be wrong here, so maybe we can verify that and fix it.
Will sure do! There's a gas station near Ontario while approaching from the south, can't recall from memory of which company it is... Anyway, thanks for your effort nautofon, I will definitely use your indication and will work for new ones!
GGtruckster wrote:
15 Apr 2020 21:56
Long story short; now I start a new carrier in a city and do daily hauls with a day cab and learn the area first. Time passes I start to do trips to nearer cities to memorize them too just like I do in real life. And it goes on and on like that until I become a supertrucker who would find his way far away.
I like this idea, I just bought a day cab Lonestar and will work near Ontario (just moved there) using this approach!
bobgrey1997 wrote:
15 Apr 2020 22:37
As such, however, I can not drive in much of California or Nevada until SCS rework them entirely with accurate signage (completely remove ALL original pre-rescale signage from the entire map).
I drove several times across Winnemucca, if you have to take the 20 North to Price you have to take two turns in a local road without any indication. I know the route, but it's a pity that's that way. I hope it'll be corrected someday. With Idaho, one can skip Nevada entirely, though.
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Re: Driving with no navigation

#32 Post by Skoot » 16 Apr 2020 13:46

I've signed up on wiki today and added directions to the Rail Export yard in Ogden, UT. Wish I cared more about street names though. :?

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Re: Driving with no navigation

#33 Post by bobgrey1997 » 16 Apr 2020 16:37

Nic Kowalski wrote:
16 Apr 2020 08:47
I drove several times across Winnemucca, if you have to take the 20 North to Price you have to take two turns in a local road without any indication. I know the route, but it's a pity that's that way. I hope it'll be corrected someday. With Idaho, one can skip Nevada entirely, though.
Precisely why I can not wait for Idaho! I don't like Nevada or California, but I can handle I 15 and I 40 to get from Utah to Arizona for now. I know, I can use local roads, but for long drive I try to stay on the freeway until my destination. A drive from Seattle to Roswell currently has I 5 to I 10, I 10 to I 15, I 15 to I40, and I 40 to Santa Rosa, then smaller highways the rest of the way.
After Idaho, it will look like I 5 to I 84, I 84 to I 15, I 15 to I 40, then I 40 to Santa Rosa, then smaller highways.
After Colorado, it will look like I 5 to I 84, I 84 to I 15, I 15 to I 70, I 70 to I 25, I 25 to I 40, I 40 to Santa Rosa, then smaller highways.
This last route would be amazing! I can then completely forget California and Nevada even exist!
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Re: Driving with no navigation

#34 Post by nautofon » 16 Apr 2020 20:42

Sounds great. Thanks to both of you for your help! :)
To drive in ATS without navigation, it's helpful to use a physical map (for highways) and driving directions (for inside cities).

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Re: Driving with no navigation

#35 Post by Nic Kowalski » 20 Apr 2020 20:34

A little update on my progress about driving directions and driving without navigation.

I went to Sunshine Crops in Salina (UT) for a delivery late at night, so for writing precise indications I used the developer console, change time, and roam around to be sure to check all the road numbers and street names. It is actually nice to roam around that way, I guess one can complete all the directions of the delivery spots of a town that way. When I drive, I'm too focused on where I have to go and careful not to crash to take note of all the details...

After a couple of weeks of driving without navigation I changed a few things. First, I got rid of the map I copied from the game. Even though I had to figure out the way myself, I ended up watching the tablet with the map as much as I was watching the GPS before... So I got rid of it and now I only rely on a few indications of road numbers and city names I need to go through. Second: I decided to disable the "no boundaries" mod. I really don't like having those barriers, but that actually relaxes me so now I'm really free to go where I want, even by mistake. Even though there was more immersion before by not seeing any fake barrier, I was obviously aware that not any road was drivable, and so I was always careful about where to turn, in a way that was not enjoyable. I used the GPS at full zoom for help, but that wasn't always easy to check (can't do it at full speed in a highway, for example), and was a "navigation help" in a way... So, now that I have the barriers on, I'm actually more relaxed and enjoy the drive and the free navigation even more. Not sure if it's all understandable, sorry... :)

I still need to find a good way to implement your delivery indications @nautofon, though... I still need to check the map before starting a delivery, because I know only a few road numbers by memory, and I usually end up seeing where the delivery location kinda is. Maybe I shouldn't zoom so much on the destination...
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Re: Driving with no navigation

#36 Post by nautofon » 20 Apr 2020 21:16

Nic Kowalski wrote:
20 Apr 2020 20:34
I went to Sunshine Crops in Salina (UT) for a delivery late at night, so for writing precise indications I used the developer console, change time, and roam around to be sure to check all the road numbers and street names. It is actually nice to roam around that way, I guess one can complete all the directions of the delivery spots of a town that way. When I drive, I'm too focused on where I have to go and careful not to crash to take note of all the details...
Trust me, I have crashed more than once while taking notes. :lol: Using the dev cam to cover an entire city in one go is probably the quickest (and safest) way to gather all the needed information. Whether or not it is the most enjoyable way is another question. That's pretty much up to each and every one of us, I guess!

Nic Kowalski wrote:
20 Apr 2020 20:34
First, I got rid of the map I copied from the game. Even though I had to figure out the way myself, I ended up watching the tablet with the map as much as I was watching the GPS before...
Makes sense. I mean, your tablet shows the exact same map content that the GPS was showing, right? And it only shows those roads that are accessible in the game. That's why I in principle prefer a real-world map, like I mentioned back on page 1. But I do have to admit this solution isn't perfect, either, because the game world often isn't entirely accurate due to the 1:20 scale.

Nic Kowalski wrote:
20 Apr 2020 20:34
[…] So, now that I have the barriers on, I'm actually more relaxed and enjoy the drive and the free navigation even more. Not sure if it's all understandable, sorry... :)
Perfectly understandable. That's actually a big part of the reason why I disabled the mod as well back then: I got too scared I'd fall through the ground again.

At the moment, I'm driving with XXXX barriers disabled and with a large-scale map display inside the truck cab, as per your suggestion in the original post. I'm still getting used to it, but so far I think I like it. Of course, that may change once I start driving in places I'm less familiar with. I saw you and others have added some directions for Utah, which I still don't really know yet, and I'm really excited to go and test-drive those. Wonder what'll happen if I go with barriers disabled. :D

Nic Kowalski wrote:
20 Apr 2020 20:34
I still need to find a good way to implement your delivery indications @nautofon, though... I still need to check the map before starting a delivery, because I know only a few road numbers by memory, …
Yes… :( the driving directions have to be reasonably brief, so they have to assume that you can get close to the destination city without help. They are dependent upon either reasonably good knowledge of the game world, or use of a map.

But at least in Oregon, you should be able to use a real-world map for that. Rand McNally, or even Google Maps. Many of the major real-life highways in Oregon are also included in the game, and in-game signage of Oregon is pretty decent. When combined with such a map, I think it should be possible to use the in-game road signs to find your way from, say, Bend to Astoria. Then, once you get close to Astoria, the driving directions kick in.

At least, that's the theory. :)

Nic Kowalski wrote:
20 Apr 2020 20:34
… and I usually end up seeing where the delivery location kinda is.
That, right there, is exactly what my original motivation was to start writing driving directions in the first place.

Of course, after writing directions to nearly every location in Oregon, I knew the state pretty well, and was largely able to deliver by memory. :? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot… ;) So I stopped taking deliveries to Oregon entirely about a year ago. My assumption is that eventually I'll forget some of the details for Oregon, and will be able to use my own notes from last year (which now are online on the wiki) to find those locations without having to reference the in-game map. Let's see if that works out…
To drive in ATS without navigation, it's helpful to use a physical map (for highways) and driving directions (for inside cities).

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Re: Driving with no navigation

#37 Post by Nic Kowalski » 22 Apr 2020 12:07

nautofon wrote:
20 Apr 2020 21:16
Trust me, I have crashed more than once while taking notes. :lol: Using the dev cam to cover an entire city in one go is probably the quickest (and safest) way to gather all the needed information. Whether or not it is the most enjoyable way is another question. That's pretty much up to each and every one of us, I guess!
Maybe because I've just discovered it, but I really dig the dev cam, and I find it very useful for gathering indications. Another good use I found last night: when I arrive at a facility and I need to park my trailer, it's not always visible where I need to park so I'm not always sure if I need to go in with the nose of the truck or with the trailer first, and trust me, it's something you need to know when hauling a 53ft trailer with the axles on the back (but I just love it)! So, I park at the front of the place and use dev cam to "walk" in and see where I need to park and figure out what manouver I need to do.
nautofon wrote:
20 Apr 2020 21:16
At the moment, I'm driving with XXXX barriers disabled and with a large-scale map display inside the truck cab, as per your suggestion in the original post. I'm still getting used to it, but so far I think I like it. Of course, that may change once I start driving in places I'm less familiar with. I saw you and others have added some directions for Utah, which I still don't really know yet, and I'm really excited to go and test-drive those. Wonder what'll happen if I go with barriers disabled. :D
Barriers off is really better visually, but for now, I guess I'll stick with them on just to be safe and learn all the roads well (at least around Oregon, my main area for now). Will see what to do next. I like to dream about a future ATS where all the roads are drivable! :D Will never happen, I know...
nautofon wrote:
20 Apr 2020 21:16
Nic Kowalski wrote:
20 Apr 2020 20:34
… and I usually end up seeing where the delivery location kinda is.
That, right there, is exactly what my original motivation was to start writing driving directions in the first place.
So, let me see if I have understood it correcly: driving directions works better if you get rid of the in-game map entirely, even just to figure out the way to your delivery (like I do just after I've loaded my truck). So if you use a real world map you won't be "spoiled" by seeing the location you need to deliever to... That's what I found not practical about the directions, I still need to rely to the in-game map and it's not handy to go outside the game just for that. And by playing almost entirely at night, I don't have enough light to read a map. Ok, that's just my problem though!
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Re: Driving with no navigation

#38 Post by badken » 23 Apr 2020 01:35

Who needs maps? I only drive on I-10 and I-5. :)

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Re: Driving with no navigation

#39 Post by nautofon » 23 Apr 2020 19:13

FWIW, my problem with the dev cam is that I don't normally have a numeric keypad. So I need to connect another keyboard to be able to use the dev cam. It's cumbersome enough for me that I don't even recall when the last time I did that was. Must have been months ago. I've tried to remap the keys to control the dev cam, but that doesn't seem to be possible.

Nic Kowalski wrote:
22 Apr 2020 12:07
So, let me see if I have understood it correcly: driving directions works better if you get rid of the in-game map entirely, even just to figure out the way to your delivery (like I do just after I've loaded my truck). So if you use a real world map you won't be "spoiled" by seeing the location you need to deliever to...
That's my assumption, yes. As I mentioned, I haven't really had many chances to follow someone else's directions to ATS locations yet.

I know @badken's quip was meant satirical, but he does have a point: Is a map (any map) really required to find the way to the destination city? Sometimes it is, yes. But not always. How often do you use a map IRL, and when do you do so? The road network in ATS is small enough that it doesn't take too long to learn and memorize the most important parts of it (like I 5 and I-10 ;)).

That's even more true in Oregon because of its rather regular road grid: There are basically "just" three east/west routes (140, 20, I-84), four north/south routes (101, I-5, 97, 395), plus a small number of oddballs like the 58. That's it.

For someone new to the Oregon DLC, using maps could be helpful for sure. But on the other hand, I'm not sure you'll have a problem if you go without a map entirely. I recall it didn't take long for me to learn the small network of highways that SCS built in Oregon, and the road signs are generally good there, showing directions to the important places. (Okay, there are some exceptions *cough* OR-22 *cough*)

So, I think you can expect that finding a city will very soon become easy for you as well, no matter if you use a map while playing or not. (It'll probably help to look at a map from time to time after playing though, to get a better understanding of the geography.)

Nic Kowalski wrote:
22 Apr 2020 12:07
That's what I found not practical about the directions, I still need to rely to the in-game map and it's not handy to go outside the game just for that.
Right. Do you have some ideas how to improve this situation? I mean: something that maybe I could help with?

Nic Kowalski wrote:
22 Apr 2020 12:07
And by playing almost entirely at night, I don't have enough light to read a map. Ok, that's just my problem though!
Yeah, same here though. I have a light on my desk that I need to switch on to look at paper maps.

But you have that tablet you showed earlier, don't you? Perhaps you can get a real-world map display on there. For example, I know that maps.me has a dark mode, and there are many other such apps as well. Hmm, I need to try that some time with my phone…

Another method that I like to use is to "alt-tab" (cmd-tab) out of the game over to an image viewer showing a map (for example: A1oaKZPdhkL.jpg, 1.5 MB). Works well enough for me, but YMMV.
To drive in ATS without navigation, it's helpful to use a physical map (for highways) and driving directions (for inside cities).

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Re: Driving with no navigation

#40 Post by Nic Kowalski » 25 Apr 2020 14:21

nautofon wrote:
23 Apr 2020 19:13
I know @badken's quip was meant satirical, but he does have a point: Is a map (any map) really required to find the way to the destination city? Sometimes it is, yes. But not always. How often do you use a map IRL, and when do you do so? The road network in ATS is small enough that it doesn't take too long to learn and memorize the most important parts of it (like I 5 and I-10 ;)).
That is true, but since I just started playing without the GPS, I still need to do a lot of driving before getting rid of the map. It could be fun though, trying a delivery without planning with the map and without knowing which road to take, but only with something like "I know is somewhere South-East in New Mexico" like my last destination yesterday, Artesia, and maybe the name of a big town nearby. Just follow an approximate direction and hope to find some roadsign with that name on! :) I should try that! That's when driving with or without the barriers can make a difference, again for somebody like me who only remembers a coulpe of road numbers for now...
nautofon wrote:
23 Apr 2020 19:13
and the road signs are generally good there, showing directions to the important places. (Okay, there are some exceptions *cough* OR-22 *cough*)
I had to look that up, didn't know about the OR-22. I actually studied my map of ATS trying to find that road in Oregon... :P
nautofon wrote:
23 Apr 2020 19:13
So, I think you can expect that finding a city will very soon become easy for you as well, no matter if you use a map while playing or not. (It'll probably help to look at a map from time to time after playing though, to get a better understanding of the geography.)
We'll see, I hope so! For now the map is useful for planning a route because I still need to drive every road (I just passed the 50% mark), and I try to cover unseen places if it makes at least a bit of sense for the delivery I need to make.
nautofon wrote:
23 Apr 2020 19:13
Nic Kowalski wrote:
22 Apr 2020 12:07
That's what I found not practical about the directions, I still need to rely to the in-game map and it's not handy to go outside the game just for that.
Right. Do you have some ideas how to improve this situation? I mean: something that maybe I could help with?
I dunno... Can I hire you as my navigator? :D I wanted to try to use the driving directions last night but the place where I needed to go wasn't listed (and I'll add it soon).
Also, with 1.37 I had a "truck sound" crisis that took me three sessions to kinda solve, but that's OT.

Still not sure about playing without the map, but I'll try to use and add more directions!
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