Truck & Industry News

[Robinicus]

Some Islanders looking at Tesla - for those who don't know the area, this is a location where this may be a good solution

https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/tesl ... -1.5380291

[Robinicus]

FTL has officially opened the order book on their E series....it has been open unofficially for about 4 months now for any fleets that meet the national account program standards...

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/04/09/fre ... roduction/

[flight50]

I'd drive the FL before I'd drive the Tesla. I still don't know why Tesla chose to go with such a 3041 looking truck.

[parasaurolophus67]

ye. Its looks like cheap plastic on wheels X_X

[Robinicus]

Not saying I am a fan of it, but if you go back several years when they were in the design phase at Tesla, everyone's E design looked similar to it.....anyone with an existing product line though would be a moron not to leverage their existing brand image/positioning

[Some newbie driver]

It has been an endemic problem of the automotive industry @Robinicus: Each time any company tried alternatives to heavily reduce fuel consume, the resulting designs were a crime against the good taste.

They seem unable to understand that people don't want weird vehicles, they want normal vehicles to drive and just have the option to chose conventional or alternative engine. Nobody wants to be the freak of the neighborhood that drives the ugliest car. And even if trucks are a professional tool where their economical balance should be the only reason; we all know well how the emotional part still has its relevance.

Freightliner has understand what their customers could want and give them a conventional truck with the same frontal grill as always; even if it has no sense on an electric truck and that reduces aerodynamics and mileage.

Regards

[supersobes]

The front grille could be serving a purpose on some of the electric trucks. I saw that some of the truck manufacturers, Peterbilt and Kenworth if I recall correctly, have a coolant gauge on the dashboard of their electric trucks, so I assume the radiator and the grille is still functional on those trucks. I guess they are using it to cool the batteries and/or electric motors.

[Some newbie driver]

Yes, Electric vehicles do need cooling too. But not at the degree that internal combustion vehicles need. A combustion engine has 3 to 4 times less efficiency than an electric engine for automotive (if I remember well several numbers seen here and there through time). That means that the conventional one will create 3 to 4 times more residual useless heat to be dissipated than the electric. Even if a part of it goes away with the exhaust gases; the difference is too big. If you keep a grille as big, that's overkill for sure.

Of course the cooling solution used on the electric vehicle could be less efficient than on a conventional engine thus end requiring a radiator as big. But again, then you are worsening your aerodynamics on purpose just to cheap on cooling? Doubtfully.

There's also a question of scale economy of course. They keep the same main components so they don't have the costs of design and manufacture a new cabin. But even wit all that factored; that big open grille has no sense it doesn't cost so much to close it somewhat and made it way more aerodynamic even if they doesn't design a whole new cabin (and it's not USA manufacturers doesn't know how to improve the aerodynamic of their trucks).

The scale economy and the need of cooling affects any electrical vehicle derived from a regular one; there's several dozens of that in the market already. And almost everyone has kicked out the front grille. So much airflow isn't necessary and the aerodynamics is crucial to gain that extra mileage (the weak point of electrics). Also the aerodynamics play a bigger role precisely when the electrics are less useful. Driving at constant medium to high speeds is when electrics can't gain mileage (can't regenerate through braking) and also when the aerodynamic opposing force is way more important (it doesn't grown linearly with speed, but at higher rate). So the negative impact of keeping that grille is big at cruise speed.

I keep seeing a factor of aesthetics in that decision. And I like it. Even if the Tesla approach is technically better, the Freigthliner approach is objectively better. Because it doesn't matter those vehicles could help the environment (and we could let the discussion of the magnitude of that statement for another time). The question is their impact will be zero if nobody wants to purchase them because people's eyes bleed looking those nonsense designs that came from a bad fungi trip. There were technically valid electrical or hybrid prototypes of cars since lots of decades ago. But we had none that was a "conventional car" (European style) until Toyota made the Prius. It was anodyne, it was as so many other cars, it was exactly its ace under the sleeve to success where so many others failed miserably.

Regards

[Robinicus]

Those of us that have been around for a long time in the industry heard all the same arguments when the first electronic engines or the Anteater KW were shown; people always resist change but from a commercial perspective, all that matters is the math. Right now, the math looks like it makes sense as there are a lot of subsidies to put one in a fleet but it has yet to proven that it is a scalable solution for anything other than regional transport or that it will stand on it's own without the subsidies.

There is very little room left to remove frontal aero drag, the areas of improvement will be in underpans and active dynamic skirting that seals the trailer gap....both are in the test mules of the E trucks. The front of the Cascadia is deceiving in pics, the grill opening is there so the same A/C condensor can be used but it has a diffuser pan behind it so it isn't a gaping air trap like it is on the diesel version; the cooling for the rectos is accomplished through chevrons on the side pans.

The numbers FTL are claiming for range are also misleading if comparing to other brands; the 230/250 published range is only on the single motor version, the dual motor version is comparable to the VNL. No one will have a sleeper version for a while until they find a way to remove the fire hazard issue as OSHA won't approve it at this point.

[supersobes]

That part about OSHA complicate is interesting. I didn't realize that sleeper cab electrics didn't exist because of a fire hazard. I just assumed it was unnecessary due to the range that electric trucks currently have before needing recharged. What part about the electric trucks poses the fire hazard? I'm thinking it might be lithium batteries, but are those any more dangerous and diesel fuel or gasoline?