Double clutch in ATS: real or fake?

Restruct62
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Joined: 17 Apr 2020 19:48

Double clutch in ATS: real or fake?

#1 Post by Restruct62 » 18 Apr 2020 12:10

In 2017 SСS announced new feauture "transmission input shaft simulation(double clutch)". Is there an official explaination, how double clutch technic works in game? Floating gears no problem, but I really cannot understand SCS logic for double clutch. For example, when in neutral rpm drop from 1800 to 1500 I easily can pick up floating gear, but if I use either full-clutch or half-clutch - no gear engages. So real life - double clutch is fake?

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B787
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Re: Double clutch in ATS: real or fake?

#2 Post by B787 » 18 Apr 2020 12:46

Doulbe clutch works fine, you just need a lot of skill. ;)

Restruct62
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Re: Double clutch in ATS: real or fake?

#3 Post by Restruct62 » 18 Apr 2020 13:39

B787 wrote:
18 Apr 2020 12:46
Doulbe clutch works fine, you just need a lot of skill. ;)
I tried and did everything correctly. Firstly, I don't know, if clutch brake is realized in game, but when I holded clutch after toe no one gear was engaged. So, I made conclusion about "clutch brake = true)". After that I tried used half - clutch, but there was something wrong again. If I am cruising 1500 rpm, after that clutch to neutral, make toe to 1800, half-clutch, and try to pick up the same gear - and give nothing - WHAT IS THIS? iF I did the same without half-clutch - no problem. So, if you press full clutch - input shaft rpm=0. If you don't use clutch, input shaft rpm=engine rpm. What is going on with input shaft rpm, when you make half-clutch - definitely something extraordinary and only God or SCS programmers know. I repeat: when I hold half-clutch after toe to 1800 - no engage, though it should be anyway at 1500 or lower.

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B787
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Re: Double clutch in ATS: real or fake?

#4 Post by B787 » 18 Apr 2020 14:38

I always press the clutch on her full range. Don't know how it behavies on just half way...

Lt_Karnage
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Re: Double clutch in ATS: real or fake?

#5 Post by Lt_Karnage » 30 Apr 2020 10:26

Hello,

I have set the config to unsynchronize gearbox, and I can double clutch without going full down, just a litte to depress the gear. Take a long time to manage and I do that for like more than a year and I still not good at it. There is good video on youtube to learn the theory but pratice is the thing that will you make master it.

Full clutch doesn't seem to brake the gear, as when I try to go in 1st after messed up complety it have never worked, the truck need to be full stop for me. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking brake clutch can be used to go in 1st when mostly stop moved.

Restruct62
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Re: Double clutch in ATS: real or fake?

#6 Post by Restruct62 » 05 May 2020 11:07

@Lt_Karnage Everything is worth than you think. I have researched than there is no simulation of input shaft of gearbox in the game. I made requisition, maybe SCS will fix it in the future. You can familiarize : viewtopic.php?f=271&t=283962

ccthetrucker33
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Re: Double clutch in ATS: real or fake?

#7 Post by ccthetrucker33 » 08 Jul 2020 14:38

1st how do you set it for that option so it makes you double clutch? 2 your right SCS should add the clutch feature in the game,so since theres no clutch brake and since i dont float it,i either shift it like a car or if i double clutch i just push the clutch to the floor when i do it and if it gets stuck in N i just keep the shifter in the gear i wanted/needed push in and release the clutch and push the gas and it goes right into gear,and if i was trying to stop at that time if im not able to double clutch downshift on time i just engage the parking brake,put it in N and turn off the engine at the same time and it will stop then i start it back up put it in gear on low range release the parking brakes and go again

Corvinus
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Re: Double clutch in ATS: real or fake?

#8 Post by Corvinus » 09 Jul 2020 09:00

I have gone to great lengths exploring this subject the last 3-4 weeks in ATS as well as ETS2 and what I've found is the following.

Double clutching is close to entirely pointless the way it works. The way it works is that you need to be SPOT ON in rpm and roadspeed while holding clutch the second stage to put it into gear, or else it's a 100% unrecoverable failure (while holding the clutch, once you release it, it becomes floating) and this does not represent IRL where you are able to feel around still a little like when floating, even while holding the clutch, just with less resistance since clutching (the whole point why OEM recommends it). Always getting it right is impossible to do at all times. But floating remains simple and fun. Then there's the deal with the clutch brake at bottom... Doesn't matter if it's implemented or not it would just cause problems IMO. So only time I use clutch is when stopping entirely and start.

Floating IRL you would gentle push the rod into N when it's time to shift. Then adjust RPM as needed along with roadspeed for either down/up shift and gently push it into place again. With common H shifters we can't do this, there's not physical feedback. So we just put the rod out in N, then into gear, and throttle the rpm/roadspeed until it falls into place. Simple and works OK. Any grinding noise can be rationalized as trying to find the gear IRL.

DoktorPete
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Re: Double clutch in ATS: real or fake?

#9 Post by DoktorPete » 09 Jul 2020 22:18

Is anybody else finding double clutching broken since like 1.36 or 7? I set my uset g_hshifter_synchronized "0" in the console every time I load the game, have the shifter options set to advanced and to never fast split, and am using the Eaton layouts but I can still float completely clutchless through all the gears and its driving me absolutely bonkers.

I'm not using any truck or physics mods anymore as 1.38 broke a lot of them, though the only time I could confirm double clutching worked even semi-realistically was with my own Spicer 4x4 compound transmission mods and layouts. I'm using a Logitech G29 with that shifter set to range/split and a Thrustmaster TH8A for the record.

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Max
SCS Software
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Re: Double clutch in ATS: real or fake?

#10 Post by Max » 16 Jul 2020 21:29

its tough to get manual (synchronized or not) truck in EU these days. and i never saw clutch brake in action (almost sure EU crashboxes did not had any). is there any info about how much, how fast and ho sensitively it should slow down the shaft?
rpms must not be exactly on spot. there is some tolerance (roughly fits to RL IMO). if you have synchronized transmission it helps you a lot (no need to double clutch in fact).
also you might try to tweak clutch range to better fit your clutch experience. no real classical clutch uses whole pedal axis range.
biggest issue it lack of feedback - irl you feel lot of things through the shifting lever.

i do not recall any significant code change that should chnage shifting behavior in 1.36 or 1.37.
Nobody can tell you anything about it. Those who know about it aren't allowed to talk. And those who talk know nothing.

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