Double clutch in ATS: real or fake?

[Corvinus]

Thx Max. Works well enough for what it is IMO. Floating my way to Idaho tomorrow Spent today largely testing manual vs real auto on the forest road in bellingham. I like the new changes.

[Restruct62]

@Max viewtopic.php?f=271&t=283962#p1334443

[Max]

@Restruct62
any reference material for "after clutch in input shaft would slows down from 1500 to 0 approx in 2-3 seconds"? is it fully pressed clutch or just disconnected? is there any progression with pressed clutch?

[Restruct62]

@Max How much time does engine need to fall from 1500 to 1000 rpm? For example, X seconds. Falling rate (FR) 1500-1000 = 500/X rpm/sec.
So when gearbox in neutral, input shaft FR=500/X rpm/sec. But if you press the clutch and disconnect engine and input shaft, FR will be approx 2/3, =300/X rpm/sec. Input shaft will slow from 1500 to 0 with FR 300/X. If you press the clutch fully, you will activate clutch brake and input shaft rpm=0 immediately. Progression with pressed clutch is very deep simulation and it is really unnecessary. Nowdays clutch brake is absent. And input shaft FR when clutch pressed = 0. Example of reference material about different FR of input shaft and engine in my native russian - http://motorzlib.ru/books/item/f00/s00/ ... t002.shtml

[Max]

i am not asking how fast falls engine.
i need to know how fast will fall input shaft alone with disconnected clutch, and how fast with clutch fully depressed (clutch brake) and what brake progression is there based on clutch position (like eg. last 10% of pedal range or so).
clutch brake is absent in game because i never saw (used) one in truck. i know the principle but i need to know some numbers to start/work with - even simplified model - otherwise i'm not not able to implement it at all.
i'm programmer and matematician, so full specification is best always ..

i'll try russian, thanks.

EDIT: i need values for truck engine/transmission, ofc ...

[rookie_one]

To be fair, I think nearly all truck gearboxes in europe have been synchronized for at least 25 years now by default (except Sisu which still had Eaton crashboxes when they still used Renault cabs).

Pretty much only americans were still using crashboxes as default manual transmission, and they are switching straight to automated these days

[Corvinus]

To be fair, I think nearly all truck gearboxes in europe have been synchronized for at least 25 years now by default (except Sisu which still had Eaton crashboxes when they still used Renault cabs).

Pretty much only americans were still using crashboxes as default manual transmission, and they are switching straight to automated these days

I hope at least current functionality is kept (polishing is fine, just don't remove all of it), manual still has a place and is still preferred among a lot of owner operators. Which to be fair, is what we are in the game. I like to mix it up with both. But I just float, which I think the majority does. I would never want to DC nonstop, IRL or here.

The only automated solutions that had any respect in the US up until almost these days seem to have been Allison (mostly for vocational dump-, quarry truck and local work type trucks like that, as they are slush boxes) and more importantly for us the Endurant based transmissions for OTR which is very different from addon TCM+ECA solutions like Ultrashift and Ultrashift PLUS. The Ultrashift name alone brings a bad taste among many just because of its rather bumpy history so drivers are slow to adapt (except mega newbies without any choice). PACCAR 12 speed however is getting very popular, it has the same components as Endurant with different programming and is supposably very smooth. Everything is certainly heading the auto direction but there should be room for classic trucks and classic ways of life.

If things stayed the way they are right now I'd be fine with it.

[rookie_one]

Allison, except for the TC-10(which was discontinued after less than 5 years of production), are strictly automatic transmission, not automated (Allison transmissions use hydraulics and planetary gears, which are a staples of automatic transmissions).

In north america, Eaton, Volvo and Detroit Diesel are doing Manual and automated transmissions only for a good while(albeit the Detroit Diesel DT12 are rebranded Mercedes-Benz transmissions, except for the DT12-HE, while it's using the the same casing, it's overall ratios are completly different from what Mercedes is doing)

Among those three, only Volvo Trucks still have an in-house automatic transmission(the PowerTronic, with only the PT2106 and PT2606 still available), albeit only in europe, and it was only available on the FMX (which is a construction truck)

[Corvinus]

Allison, except for the TC-10(which was discontinued after less than 5 years of production), are strictly automatic transmission, not automated (Allison transmissions use hydraulics and planetary gears, which are a staples of automatic transmissions).

In north america, Eaton, Volvo and Detroit Diesel are doing Manual and automated transmissions only for a good while(albeit the Detroit Diesel DT12 are rebranded Mercedes-Benz transmissions, except for the DT12-HE, while it's using the the same casing, it's overall ratios are completly different from what Mercedes is doing)

Among those three, only Volvo Trucks still have an in-house automatic transmission(the PowerTronic, with only the PT2106 and PT2606 still available), albeit only in europe, and it was only available on the FMX (which is a construction truck)

I think I included the word "slush box" in my previous box in regards to Allison. Albeit I didn't know they ever dabbled in AMT alternatives like the TC10. Thx for that nugget.

I think Europe as a whole is on a whole other evolution step in regards to automatics. Look at Opticruise with 3500Nm / 2500 lb-ft. Scania doesn't even offer manual for their 730 engine.

[rookie_one]

Or rather Scania don't offer it anymore (the GRSO925 used to be available in manual version at one point if I remember well)

And I prefer not to do comparison between europe and north america on that, each continent did get new things first depending on manufacturer (for example, dual torque engines seems to be a recent thing in europe, while we had that option for years in north america, etc...)

For the TC-10, it was a weird transmission, while it only used planetary for the range gear (as usual), it used hydraulics instead of pneumatics for shifting. It was using a torque converter too, which meant that it was an hybrid between automated and automatic.

In the end, it was never popular compared to Volvo own i-Shift or to Eaton Ultrashift transmission (the Eaton Endurant was not out when the TC-10 came out), probably since it was more maintenance intensive because of it's hydraulics.

For why I'm a bit specific, it's because automated are using the same internals type as a manual transmission (hence why "automated"), while automatics use hydraulics to shift (and they still have a goddamn valve body, though it's controlled by computer nowadays), have a torque converter instead of a clutch, and use only clutch packs and planetary gears inside the transmission