Double clutch in ATS: real or fake?

[Corvinus]

Nothing wrong with specifics but was well aware of the differences. I've seen swaps done of the actuators on manuals when repairing Ultrashifts, wether it was speed sensor($80 fix) or physical wear(~$900). Outside the TCM it's a rather primitive setup with just 2 motors and X,Y movement harness where the shifter normally goes. While Endurant and PACCAR has the MTM module on transmissions that are made to work well with it. Cannot convert those boxes as easily (or at all) as you can ultrashift back to manual, because they was never made for it. And supposably the reason they work so much better too.

There are pros and cons on every side for sure. Back on topic, manual realism deserves a place in a truck simulator, even if it stays like it is. Those with deeper interest for perfect torque and more exact ratios are messing with mods anyways. I was happy to research though that the 18 speed in the game is extremely close to a super 18. So even if there are better automated solutions right now like Endurant/PACCAR it makes it more real to convert an Ultrashift in the game to a manual - pretend wise, it's a game afterall.

[Max]

i can assure you there are no plans to remove any transmission functionality. options and cvar setting were meant exactly for such player experiments ..

i expect i will be able to add some tweaks (like slow input shaft rpm drop, and faster with fully pressed clutch) even without any hard data .. at least it should not be much worse than before ..

[GT182]

Why would you want to double clutch when, and if, you can shift by matching the RPMs. It's so much easier and there is less wear and tear on the clutch. Unless... you can't do it no matter how hard you try. I was taught to not use the clutch years ago and I could shift a 13 or 18 speed as fast or faster than a truck automatic trans from back in the 70s and 80s. Yeah they made automatic transmissions for big trucks back then. I drove a White cement truck with and automatic trans and it was a piece of crap. I could shift the Mack (I was assigned to) B-63's quadraplex faster than that "thing" could shift its self.

I don't have the setup to shift gears in ATS but I sure would like to try... and not use the clutch.

[plykkegaard]

To be fair, I think nearly all truck gearboxes in europe have been synchronized for at least 25 years now by default

You can easily say 35 years or more, I took my license back in '86 in a Scania 82m rigid, later in the early nineties I drove a Mercedes LP 809 a light rigid a couple of years in Copenhagen and suburbs

[GT182]

I started in 1976 and got my Class 1 in the Spring of 1977. Back then it was a Class 1 where as today it's a CDL. It's still current even tho I'm retired. I also have the endorsements for Doubles, Triples, Tank, and Motorcycle. I know guys that have given they're up and regret it. I'll keep mine and take it with me to the grave. ATS keeps me currant. LOL

[Lt_Karnage]

Hello,

Edit: I was wrong thinking I was at the last page when writing this, so it may seem off. anyway happing trucking.

in 1.38 (and other), I have no see issue with double clutch (I still miss gear from time to time).

Double clutch is more difficult to master so for me it's more fun at least when you reach the point you manage almost to do it (not a master or perfect but the job is done). Recently I have bought a new knob shifter from Franck3dShop and It seem to help the process and with lesson from Driving Academy NJ on Youtube I learn better how much and how fast I need to double clutch (it's really fast but maybe because in ATS RPM drop quicker than IRL). For info because I learn it recently, to pass to L or H, we just need to release the accelerator (with the option enable to do it), it's intended like that as a professionnel trucker have say.

The downshifting is the more difficult part at least for me, but I don't think the RPM need to be at the perfect match, just about the value corresponding to the next gear see lesson on youtube on the subject.

Floating gear is not recommanded by producer, and without the feedback on our shifter cannot feel the sweetpot (which is also annoying when you miss a gear as you can feel the spot to recover, just try using rpm/mph and think what gear could match playing with the accelerator). Floating gear is one reason that manual disapear to automatic no more driver thinking they do good when not (other reason more easy and less work so more to the driving and surrounding).

So there is no brake clutch when fully depressed ?
I found this video about it : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNLU7i2gLwk and this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCGNiTO79Os

I don't find any information about how fast rpm (input shaft) will drop when fully disconnected. But watching a tutorial by Driving Academy, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQLnt5es_Go, the rpm seem to drop as in ATS.

[Lt_Karnage]

Hello,

I just realize that I didn't understand the clutch brake. Apparently depressing the clutch when the truck is moving will break the clutch brake. I'm not sure to understand what it's purpose in this case.

I found a more explanatory video about clutch brake : the why and the how with a good teacher :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpteotKsjXE Enjoy

[Corvinus]

@Lt_Karnage

Yeah that's why you never depress the clutch all the way when double clutching IRL, just all the way when stopped. I've read it could be annoying to be a trucker coming to a complete stop before they existed since you'd have to wait for the drivetrain to stop spinning. For not depressing all the way you can just adjust the clutch level in the game.

I would definitely float IRL and not double clutch all the time so I do it in the game as well. When you do it long enough you start hitting the spots pretty well, and sometimes you just have to grind it to find it, IRL as well in unpredictable road speed/rpm conditions. I just pretend I'm still in the gate trying to feel the entry and the sound is the feedback. It's all we got.

Eaton recommends double clutching for sure, and it has some merit as the forces are far lower if you don't hit it perfectly. Floating won't cause wear if done right, and the off chance of grinding a rare occasion when you're in adverse conditions does not make up for the continuous wear on all of body, clutch and sanity over time by double clutching every gear instead. If I were a manufacturer I would recommend DC as well, since I would sell more clutch parts and risk less warranty claims at the same time. Win win. Doesn't mean floating won't work and work well if only done well enough. Plenty of references from shops out there reporting far less wear on drivetrain by floating than constantly DCing. AMTs reportedly last longer as well, unless overstrained by work loads the drivetrain was never intended for. Mechanical wear (unrelated to clutching, harnesses and actuators etc) on older tech, but they improve every year. AMTs floats gears.

I've watched 150+ vids and 200+ articles on the subject and am utterly convinced that it must be easier IRL than in the game due to slower rpm loss and physical feedback, simply better connection with the engine and transmission by visceral sound and feel to know when to shift over time and far bigger reaction times. In the game it's a partial guessing game and quicker reactions.

My point somewhere above is that whatever range there is, you need to hit it perfectly or fail 100% as long as the clutch is held. But you can always release the clutch, rpm up, depress and try again. I choose to just rpm though in neutral and let it fall into place by floating. This is realistic as in about the same way a real driver would go about saving a failed shift, even CDL teaches it during city driving - but it isn't realistic in the way that you'd be able to find the gear on the way up the rpm range while in the game you have to go above it for it to fall into gear. Not a big deal though.

This is just my take on it, take it as you will of course.

[Lt_Karnage]

Hello,

Thanks you Corvinus. I understand better the clutch brake now. Since I use unsynchronize gearbox, except at full stop, I just press the clutch a little, and it's seem to work without config the range of clutch in game.

For floating gear, yes when done correctly no issue, and the limitation of the game but more the device, could give bad habit to player. But if you already know how to do it the good way, nothing should stop you to do it, right. And floating gear is less work for you and sometime when you loose your gear it will permit to recover as you mention.

[Corvinus]

I am however curious if grinding while finding the gear in the game has any factoring in extra gearbox wear/damage or if it's just sound. Maybe a modder would know or an official dev.