Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

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Tails
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#91 Post by Tails » 16 Sep 2020 01:16

maybe black Friday will make PC parts shopping much cheaper even for those higher end GPU.
like to explore new areas of maps for both ATS and ETS2.

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Some newbie driver
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#92 Post by Some newbie driver » 16 Sep 2020 07:29

You have 1 KEY of windows 7, that's what allows you to install it in different computers using the excuse of had changed the hardware due malfunction.

But you will NEVER obtain the Windows 10 key with the upgrade process. That key is stores in Microsoft servers and applied only to the Win10 installation that matches the hardware ID that activate it the first time. It's impossible you could install it on another hardware and, once one key of windows 7 has generated a Win10 upgrade key, n o other installation of the same windows 7 key will activate if upgraded to Windows 10 on a different hardware.

About the cards, the RTX2060 is basically the SAME than a GTX1660 with the additions of ray tracing and IA specific cores. You aren't going to use them either for SCS games, for your video edition works and for most of the stuff you are going to do. So, if you purchase an RTX 2060, you are going to have LESS real performance than a GTX 1660 SUPER. The only improvement purchasing an RTX card is when having the 2070 or higher models; because there exist no GTX 16 series equivalent (and that's done on purpose, or NVidia wouldn't had sold 1/10th of the RTX cards they sold). There will be lots of games supporting RT in a near future, a lot more than there are now; but for then you could had saved money enough to change to a better graphic card and, more importantly, there will be in the market way better cards (and a lot better in performance/price ratio) than the ones exist today.

And again, remember what I suggested you, 3600XT is way better and more balanced CPU than 3700X (even just announcing 4.5 max turbo clock). I've 3700X because XT models didn't exist when I purchased my computer. If I did the change now, I wouldn't doubt it a second and aim only XT models. I suppose I would had took the nicest 3800XT, but that's way far of your budget.

@GT182 if you wanna see more and better looks for the AMD 6000 series, search a JayzTwoCents very recent video. Way a lot more and better (and almost exclusive) information than on all the articles of Internet that just include the official press note that AMD published. Anyways, that's just the look and AMD needs to give customers some more if they pretend to battle the NVidia 3070. At this moment, NVidia is wining by rival absence.

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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#93 Post by plykkegaard » 16 Sep 2020 08:51

Please note: A few reports related to heat issues om memory modules on RTX 30xx cards have emerged
I wouldnt be first mover on those cards wait for 2nd or even 3rd generation
Sorry, out of office

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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#94 Post by Some newbie driver » 16 Sep 2020 16:32

I would wait for the GN thermals-specific review. I could swear God that I doubt there are anything else more detailed and in-deepth than their reviews, at least in English (and I would be happy if, being wrong, somebody who knows another reviewer of that level could share the link so I could know a new one).

And if I've to guess, the reports you mention could probably be related to the new GDDR6X (or whatever they are called). The main-seller-going-to-be RTX3070 (that still has not had its embargo lifted) uses conventional GDDR6. Those aren't going to overheat.

Anyways, the new cards are completely out of the scope of @Reignman budget and a probable 3060 or even a 3050 had not even announced. So, he will have to stay on his initial choices: a 16060 Super or a VERY good deal on an RTX2070 or superior that he could find if the massive drop prices expected becomes a reality.

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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#95 Post by plykkegaard » 16 Sep 2020 16:37

Yea it is the 6X mem modules on the x80 and x90 cards which has issues with heat
Sorry, out of office

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Reignman
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#96 Post by Reignman » 16 Sep 2020 17:42

Crocko From Oz wrote:
15 Sep 2020 23:41
I can highly recommend the 1660 SUPER as a 'budget' entry level card. It will easily handle ATS and ETS2 at 60fps (1920x1080 @ 60Hz screen)
I'm 50/50 between the 1660 Super and the RTX 2060. It's all going to boil down to my budget, and how much the prices drop in the next few weeks. If I had to order today, then it would be the 1660 Super. I'll have to checkout those settings you posted though.
Crocko From Oz wrote:
15 Sep 2020 23:41
With the above settings, the 1660 never dips below 60fps when using default SCS rigs,
60 seems kinda low for 1080p, or is SCS/ATS one of those games with lower frame rates? Because I just checked my frame rate for the first time last night and apparently I've been playing ATS at only 18 FPS on my 12yo PC lol. It doesn't seem that low though. It's fairly smooth, and I don't mean in comparison to 60 FPS, I mean in comparison to other games where the rate drops down to 18. For example, I play another game that gets 50-60 FPS, but when it drops to around 25, it's unplayable. It's very noticeable. Why does 18 FPS seem decent on ATS, but 25 is unplayable on another game? I adjusted a few settings in ATS and I managed to get up to 25, which looks way better than the 25 in the other game. I bought a 144Hz monitor with adaptive sync, so the 60 FPS worries me a bit, not that it makes me reconsider getting a 1660 Super, but I would like to push 144 frames if possible.
GT182 wrote:
16 Sep 2020 00:04
Check this link out..... https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/gaming- ... e-desktops
Uff, I'm not a big fan of pre-builts lol. And the design of that Dell tower is difficult to look at xD. About $3500 for the R9 3950X, RTX 2080ti, 32GB machine. They don't specifically list which parts they used, but I imagine you could build your own 3950X, 2080ti, with 32GB for much cheaper than that. They want $1250 for one similar to what I'm trying to build, but I could build it for $800. $900 including Windows 10. It won't look as "pretty", but it'll perform better.
Tails wrote:
16 Sep 2020 01:16
maybe black Friday will make PC parts shopping much cheaper even for those higher end GPU.
Oh man, are you trying to torture me lol? I've been trying to build a new PC since May or June, but decided to wait until October now to see what Nvidia 30 series and AMD gen 4 brings to the table, and now you want me to wait until almost December lol? You guys are killing me. Then someone will tell me to wait to see what 2021 offers lol. I've run out of patience with my 12 year old PC.
Some newbie driver wrote:
16 Sep 2020 07:29
You have 1 KEY of windows 7, that's what allows you to install it in different computers using the excuse of had changed the hardware due malfunction.

But you will NEVER obtain the Windows 10 key with the upgrade process. That key is stores in Microsoft servers and applied only to the Win10 installation that matches the hardware ID that activate it the first time.
You're bumming me out man lol. I don't want to be locked into one PC, and I don't have room in the budget for a Windows 10 key or license. I mean if the key goes by the motherboard, then maybe I'm safe because I intend to keep the same MB for a long time, but I imagine I'll be changing the SSD at some point and will need to reinstall Windows. I'm screwed if the MB goes out on me though. Maybe it's time to look into Linux xD?
Some newbie driver wrote:
16 Sep 2020 07:29
About the cards, the RTX2060 is basically the SAME than a GTX1660 with the additions of ray tracing and IA specific cores. You aren't going to use them either for SCS games, for your video edition works and for most of the stuff you are going to do. So, if you purchase an RTX 2060, you are going to have LESS real performance than a GTX 1660 SUPER.
I've watched side by side video comparison of the 1660 Super and RTX 2060, and the RTX 2060 is noticeably better. Yeah it's probably not $80-90 better, but it is better, and I'm more or less thinking about the future. Which card keeps me in that 1080p mid tier range for the next 5 years, and helps me take advantage of that sweet looking 144Hz panel lol? But like I mentioned earlier, I won't pay more than $300 for a RTX 2060, so we'll have to see if prices drop. If they don't, then I'll get a 1660 Super and save my shekels for a future upgrade. I'll keep an eye on the 2070's as well. I'll go over the budget to get a good deal on one of those. Again, it's all going to depend on how much I can save on everything else.
Some newbie driver wrote:
16 Sep 2020 07:29
And again, remember what I suggested you, 3600XT is way better and more balanced CPU than 3700X (even just announcing 4.5 max turbo clock). I've 3700X because XT models didn't exist when I purchased my computer. If I did the change now, I wouldn't doubt it a second and aim only XT models.
Even for a multitasker such as myself lol? If I'm working with 3 panels, rendering video here, working on spreadsheets there, watching video/surfing the web on the other, wouldn't the 8 core 3700X be better than the 6 core 3600XT? Plus the XT doesn't seem worth the extra $50 over the regular 3600 (assuming the insane prices of the 3600 return to normal at some point).
Some newbie driver wrote:
16 Sep 2020 07:29
Anyways, that's just the look and AMD needs to give customers some more if they pretend to battle the NVidia 3070. At this moment, NVidia is wining by rival absence.
And we the consumers are losing lol. C'mon AMD, put some pressure on so we can get lower prices. Why are they so good at making CPU's but so bad at making GPU's?
Some newbie driver wrote:
16 Sep 2020 16:32
Anyways, the new cards are completely out of the scope of @Reignman budget and a probable 3060 or even a 3050 had not even announced. So, he will have to stay on his initial choices: a 16060 Super or a VERY good deal on an RTX2070 or superior that he could find if the massive drop prices expected becomes a reality.
Yeah sadly the 3070 at $500 is out of range. I imagine it's going to be difficult to get one at first too. The demand is going to be so high. That one will be on my list for the 5 year upgrade though, depending on what else comes out by then, and prices ofc. I know the 20 series has a bad reputation, but it seems like my only option atm, or a 1660 Super.

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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#97 Post by Some newbie driver » 16 Sep 2020 18:29

Reignman wrote:
16 Sep 2020 17:42
You're bumming me out man lol. I don't want to be locked into one PC, and I don't have room in the budget for a Windows 10 key or license.
Windows OEM licenses had been always tied to a single computer (as per the EULA we accept when using them, that legal garbage nobody reads). The only reason we could install one license in multiple computers is because we had the key number. On a Win10 upgrade you will NOT have the key number, so you could not multi-install it. If you wanna do any test, just install Win10 without any older windows present on that machine at the same time and skip any activation step. It will install and work perfectly, only bugging you about the necessary activation. View it from another point: you have a free update but it's for a single PC. Don't you want it? Fine, purchase a new license with it's key and do the evil tricks done on before. Here we use to say: "Don't look the tooth to a gifted horse".
Reignman wrote:
16 Sep 2020 17:42
Which card keeps me in that 1080p mid tier range for the next 5 years
No card is going to keep you in midtier for 5 years, not even if you purchase right now a 2080Ti (the most lame purchase anybody can do now). Plain and simple, Nvidia new gen is so absurdly better than the previous one, that it's going to make obsolete anything currently in the market in less than 2 years. Even if the reviews demonstrated that not so much as in the NVidia presentation, we all know that NVidia couldn't take the change to open too much their mouth. And have one thing clear: Nvidia CEO had already admitted publicly that tey "controlled" the performance increase between generations. He said that it's for the sake of a wealthy company and blablabla corporative gibberish. Bull****. They limited the increase in performance in every generation to a level enough to incentivize the change but not enough to have to invest too much in a new product and risking not have enough to give us on next generation. As they had no real competition for years, that was a evil masterminds triumph.

But that's gone. The increase in performance of this generation regarding the previous has an average around 70% in real gaming or productivity workloads, not just synthetic benchmarks. NVidia has unleashed the beast. Why? Why to break that strategy that give them so much gain? There was of course a lot of anger about the pricing on 20 series; it has been the poorest performance/price generation in all NVidia history or almost. NVidia could had been a bit more generous in the improvements regarding the previous gen. But so much as they did? Nobody finds all of a sudden the magic touch to easily improve that much performance on a chip and doesn't hesitate to share it with their customers. They had most of that knowledge well before 20 series was released. They just used 20 series to milk money to make the manufacturing of future cards more profitable at the same price (because don't forget that, NVidia new cards are still very expensive, the only has changed very positively is the performance/price ratio).

So, the only real reason that could force NVidia to do such a gigantic leap is that they know, or they think they know, that AMD is coming with something big (pun intended). And Nvidia decided to strike first before AMD reach a performance too close as theirs. NVidia has seen clearly what happened to Intel in CPUs due their lack of diligence ignoring and mocking the competition of AMD. Now AMD could possible really come with something real big (and give us more choices); or they will stop half the way (like on previous gen) due the giant leap of NVidia and they will have to keep selling very cheap cards (but still better than actual ones). Resuming: keep you purchase cheaper now, take the 1660 Super, It's affordable, it's way better than what you have now, it's not overpriced like the RTX. Save as much as you can because that card is going to move to your old secondary rig faster than what you think now.
Reignman wrote:
16 Sep 2020 17:42
Even for a multitasker such as myself lol? If I'm working with 3 panels, rendering video here, working on spreadsheets there, watching video/surfing the web on the other, wouldn't the 8 core 3700X be better than the 6 core 3600XT? Plus the XT doesn't seem worth the extra $50 over the regular 3600 (assuming the insane prices of the 3600 return to normal at some point).
A multitasker like you had never been able to work on 12 threads CPUs on domestic computer for 1000$. Las time you purchase a computer, something barely similar to that costed 20.000$ or more. You are not going to need all of a sudden 4 times the cores you used so far (not to mention the difference in performance of each one). I already told you, core count is cool but it's not the only that matters. There's lots of tasks that rely more on single-core speed than in paralelization (and still in 2020 you have a lot of examples in the video editing ecosystem). So, what you want is BALANCE: nice amount of cores (12 isn't bad at all) but without sacrifice too much the clock speed regarding an Intel alternative. That's what XT versions will give you, specially if appropriately cooled and if in the future you start to tinker a bit the OC (not manually, but in the limits of automatic software to tune the CPU a bit). So, stick to your 3600 ans save money for other components now or for sooner improvements in 2 years; or go to the XT and make it last longer. And knowing that XT ones are better quality manufacturing, so for sure they can last longer when heavy used. Any other option now isn't budget-wise.
Reignman wrote:
16 Sep 2020 17:42
And we the consumers are losing lol. C'mon AMD, put some pressure on so we can get lower prices. Why are they so good at making CPU's but so bad at making GPU's?
Well, the customers had already won. As I told you, the performance/price ratio on the next gen has improved A LOT. That wouldn't had happened without a bit of competence (history tell us that had not happened for NVidia in 4 gens at least). Why so bad making GPUs? Because every chip design (of that complexity) is a whole bunch of trade-offs. You need to sacrifice several things to achieve others. So, it's a gamble; you expect the features that you focus on will be the trend to follow and that the features you will sacrifice will have a lesser impact. If you are wrong on that gamble you will require YEARS to come with something new (and no guarantee the next gamble with be successful). That's what happened to them with the FX processors. That's what happened later to Intel; they needed lots of years to transition to a real new architecture. They had to reuse the old 14nm (with tons of ++++++ after) until boredom and that gave AMD time to recover. So far NVidia has not fall in that kind of mistakes in recent years while Radeon division of AMD did it, so they had a lot of ground to recover.

Whatever, AMD has always been the small fish, Intel and NVidia had always more "muscle". But AMD had compensated that for years with better engineering; or at least squeezing more profit of each design idea. Consider that: the Radeon 5700xt is overall way under any RTX2070 Super of higher. But surprisingly, in some benchmarks I've seen, he BEATS the new RTX3080 or stay really near. How's that possible? Because what I said you: they gambled for some features and those features work very well in their cards. If your software require those features, you will have better performance than on any NVidia card. Problem is that the kind of software where AMD features shine aren't massive-sellers video games but some specialized professional software. We will see if their gamble for their next gen will be good for gaming.

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Reignman
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#98 Post by Reignman » 16 Sep 2020 20:38

Oh wow, I'm in a bit of a panic. I found the R5 3600 for $175 at Walmart ... for real this time lol. Do I buy it or do I still wait for gen 4? Geez, I don't want to overreact now, but this is the lowest I've seen it in over a month. It's still $210+ everywhere else. I still feel like I should wait, but I'll punch myself in the face if I don't see it this low again.

And speaking of GPU's, what about the RX 5600 XT? Team red has re-entered the picture today. Benchmarks have it performing as well as the 2060, sometimes better sometimes worse depending on the game, but it's in the same ballpark and it's $40-50 cheaper. So that's possibly the mid tier (between a 1660 Super and the 260) that I've been looking for. It even draws less power than the 2060. That's the main thing that has kept me from team red. There has to be a flaw though right? I better keep researching because I'm sure I'm overlooking something.

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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#99 Post by Reignman » 16 Sep 2020 21:08

Some newbie driver wrote:
16 Sep 2020 18:29
Windows OEM licenses had been always tied to a single computer (as per the EULA we accept when using them, that legal garbage nobody reads). The only reason we could install one license in multiple computers is because we had the key number.
Yeah I looked into the OEM route as well, they're slightly cheaper than a full key/license, but they can't be transferred. And some places are trying to sell them for $20, and they might be legit, but I smell problems there.
Some newbie driver wrote:
16 Sep 2020 18:29
No card is going to keep you in midtier for 5 years, not even if you purchase right now a 2080Ti (the most lame purchase anybody can do now).
I probably worded that wrong. Not necessarily keep me mid tier, but which is going to last longer? I'd like to get at least 5 years out of whatever I buy now.
Some newbie driver wrote:
16 Sep 2020 18:29
Plain and simple, Nvidia new gen is so absurdly better than the previous one, that it's going to make obsolete anything currently in the market in less than 2 years.
That's a good point. Game makers now have better tech to work with, so games are going to get even better and more demanding.
Some newbie driver wrote:
16 Sep 2020 18:29
They limited the increase in performance in every generation to a level enough to incentivize the change but not enough to have to invest too much in a new product and risking not have enough to give us on next generation. As they had no real competition for years, that was a evil masterminds triumph.
It makes sense. They can't push ahead of what software developers are capable of making or they'll be trying to sell expensive hardware that can't be used for anything. You could probably say that about the 20 series and ray tracing. How long has the 20 series been out and there are barely any games that support it? The key is competition though. It's more AMD's fault, or the failure of a 3rd developer to become competitive and drive prices down.
Some newbie driver wrote:
16 Sep 2020 18:29
There was of course a lot of anger about the pricing on 20 series; it has been the poorest performance/price generation in all NVidia history or almost. NVidia could had been a bit more generous in the improvements regarding the previous gen.
I'm not comfortable with the price to performance either, but they are better than the 16 series and there's nothing in between. The 1660 Super just doesn't seem good enough to me. I'm going to take a closer look at this 5600xt though.
Some newbie driver wrote:
16 Sep 2020 18:29
(because don't forget that, NVidia new cards are still very expensive, the only has changed very positively is the performance/price ratio).
Yeah GPU's in general are way too expensive right now, but there's not much competition, and there's such a high demand for them. Gaming has become so popular.
Some newbie driver wrote:
16 Sep 2020 18:29
Resuming: keep you purchase cheaper now, take the 1660 Super, It's affordable, it's way better than what you have now, it's not overpriced like the RTX. Save as much as you can because that card is going to move to your old secondary rig faster than what you think now.
It'll depend on prices in the coming weeks. I can't commit to anything atm. I've drawn my line in the sand on a 2060 price and I won't cross it, so it'll be the 1660 Super or the 5600xt if I can't find a deal lol.
Some newbie driver wrote:
16 Sep 2020 18:29
A multitasker like you had never been able to work on 12 threads CPUs on domestic computer for 1000$. Las time you purchase a computer, something barely similar to that costed 20.000$ or more. You are not going to need all of a sudden 4 times the cores you used so far (not to mention the difference in performance of each one).
Lol that's the old me. I have options now. I can't do so much multitasking now because I'm limited by my equipment. When I render video now, I have to sit here twiddling my thumbs until it finishes. It can take an hour sometimes. I'd love to be able to work on something else while it's doing that. I can't even surf the web. I'm sure I'd put 8 cores to use if I had them lol.
Some newbie driver wrote:
16 Sep 2020 18:29
Consider that: the Radeon 5700xt is overall way under any RTX2070 Super of higher. But surprisingly, in some benchmarks I've seen, he BEATS the new RTX3080 or stay really near. How's that possible? Because what I said you: they gambled for some features and those features work very well in their cards.
Well I guess that's probably why the 5600xt is on par with the 2060 too. I still prefer team green, but I'll jump to team red like I did going from Intel to Ryzen, to get what I want. I told you I wasn't committed to any particular team lol.

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Crocko From Oz
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#100 Post by Crocko From Oz » 16 Sep 2020 21:56

Reignman wrote:
16 Sep 2020 17:42
60 seems kinda low for 1080p, or is SCS/ATS one of those games with lower frame rates?
It's 60fps because my screen is only 60Hz ;)

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