Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

Some newbie driver
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#211 Post by Some newbie driver » 24 Nov 2020 20:31

Reignman wrote:
24 Nov 2020 19:27
Does it take AMD a month to make more CPU's? Is everyone stockpiling for a big holiday sale?
Each new batch produced is given to a certain customer in order o priorities and signed requests that AMD has. Restock wouldn't be homogeneous all around the globe. Also, in those situations, the customers that use to have the high priority are system integrators (so, CPUs sold by AMD to PC manufacturers, not to be sold as stand alone parts). And yes, there's also a lot of stockpiling on the final link of the supply chain. They expect to make a lot more money if they wait 2 weeks and people get crazy purchasing at those prices way over MSRP that you are already seeing (and not in scalpers EBAY auctions).
Reignman wrote:
24 Nov 2020 19:27
Or if they have been getting new stock, then their email alerts aren't working because I'm signed up to get an alert at several places for when they post new stock and I have yet to get an email. How can anyone order them if they're not posted?
If the e-mail notifications system of one of those pages has been setup wrongly (sending e-mails to anybody signed just at the moment the stock appeared), you are not going to receive anything because it most probably has become saturated and shut down. If the e-mail system has been set properly, then it's going to warn the first X people signed if the stock increases in X and giving those X customers a couple of hours to confirm the purchase. If the time is out, then that customer loses his opportunity and an e-mail is sent to the next in the queue. First come, first served; you will be in a queue of tens of thousands of people. EVGA uses that system for the RTX3000 cards orders and not so many days ago they was still working fine but had a delay of 30 days (they were serving orders made 30 days ago, so imagine).

But anyways, you should forget about those new parts scarcity and stick to your planned purchase: 3600 range CPU and 1600 Super or 2060 as GPU. You waited all that time to achieve good prices that could fit in your budget; not to switch to expensive new-gen parts and to have to battle for one of them. The only I'm sorry is that craziness of prices had made you wait a lot more than expected.

That's why I said you to go VERY cheap on a GPU. And when I mean VERY is VERY. Go to Ebay and search for the cheapest old-but-not-so-much card that you could find (a GTX970 for example). Something under $100 total cost shipping included. Plug it on the new computer and done, you will be on business finally. It doesn't matter at all that it will BURN in 3 months, for that time the scarcity of new parts will be gone (plus NVidia and AMD would had released the new cards on the mid to lower tiers) so the old gens market should finally stop being a nest of vultures. When that moment arrives, objectively, the price of older cards should had sink way more than the $100 you could spent now on that placeholder. With the 3060Ti near to release and having the expected MSRP and a the performance of a 2080 Super... nobody is going to sell the cards you are looking now for over $200 (well, they could try, but they aren't going to sell anyone).

Your only problem now is to purchase the CPU; sadly I don't think you achieve the very low price you saw some months ago, but take the first opportunity you find on a reasonable price (not good, just reasonable) and done. The 3600 has not gone worse just because the 5600X has been released; it will serve you very well and, in a couple off years (half the way to the expected lifetime of that rig); you could change it for a 5950X (that at that moment would be way cheaper than now just released) and skyrocket your computer again. Your board and RAM and the other parts of your system would not need to be changed at all.

Regards

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Reignman
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#212 Post by Reignman » 27 Nov 2020 22:28

Some newbie driver wrote:
24 Nov 2020 20:31
If the e-mail system has been set properly, then it's going to warn the first X people signed if the stock increases in X and giving those X customers a couple of hours to confirm the purchase. If the time is out, then that customer loses his opportunity and an e-mail is sent to the next in the queue. First come, first served; you will be in a queue of tens of thousands of people. EVGA uses that system for the RTX3000 cards orders and not so many days ago they was still working fine but had a delay of 30 days (they were serving orders made 30 days ago, so imagine).
I think this is a different system. Newegg isn't using a queue, their email system just notifies you when they get new stock, and it's first come first serve. I figure it's automatic though, so even if bots scoop up all the available stock in 2 seconds, I should still get a notification. AMD recommended a queue system to retailers, but Newegg said they were going to try something else. What that is, I have no idea lol. Most likely limit them to 1 per IP or credit card number. But there's no option to enter a queue. I've had them notify me when other out of stock items were back in stock, and yeah they just send you an email. I've done the same thing through Walmart, Best Buy, and B&H. It's been 3 weeks and nobody has sent me a re-stock email about the 5000 series.
Some newbie driver wrote:
24 Nov 2020 20:31
But anyways, you should forget about those new parts scarcity and stick to your planned purchase: 3600 range CPU and 1600 Super or 2060 as GPU. You waited all that time to achieve good prices that could fit in your budget; not to switch to expensive new-gen parts and to have to battle for one of them.
Well the problem is, the new-gen stuff is cheaper than old-gen lol. I can't find a 2060 under $400 now. I can get a 2060 Super for cheaper. Same with the 1660 Super, can't find one under $300. Prices just keep going up, and everything is still out of stock, so someone is buying everything at these insane prices. I would rather buy the new gen stuff instead, except it's never in stock, so it could be March by the time I get one. A R7 3700X is looking more tempting at $295 now. Performance wise, it's comparable to the new 5600X. The 5600X edges it out in most benchmarks, but it's close enough. And at $295 it's the new "best bang for your buck" chip available.
Some newbie driver wrote:
24 Nov 2020 20:31
The only I'm sorry is that craziness of prices had made you wait a lot more than expected.
Yep it's all your fault haha j/k. Nobody saw this insane kind of demand coming. It made sense the older stuff would be cheaper once the new gen hit the shelves. But you can't even find a holiday deal on anything. The prices are to blame. I've only waited until the end of November because I could never find a good deal on anything lol. I would have bought a 3600 by now had they ever gone down to $170 again, or a 2600 down to $280. Everything went the other direction though. Now the only question is, when will this madness die down and stock/prices return to normal? I'm even hearing rumors of bitcoin mining making a return, so great, I'll be paying $1000 for a crappy GPU eventually xD.
Some newbie driver wrote:
24 Nov 2020 20:31
Go to Ebay and search for the cheapest old-but-not-so-much card that you could find (a GTX970 for example). Something under $100 total cost shipping included. Plug it on the new computer and done, you will be on business finally.
I have a strict "no used tech" policy lol. Even for something cheap and temporary. Under the circumstances I might have to reconsider that policy however. If I have to wait another 6 months, I'll have to upgrade this pile of crap if I want to keep my sanity.

Some newbie driver
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#213 Post by Some newbie driver » 27 Nov 2020 22:49

Reignman wrote:
27 Nov 2020 22:28
I'm even hearing rumors of bitcoin mining making a return, so great, I'll be paying $1000 for a crappy GPU eventually xD.
Bitcoin mining is actually done with ASICs that are specially purpose silicon built for that work and that smashes to the ground any GPU set you could imagine (not to mention the performance per wat). So no, Bitcoin mining will not return to affect gaming GPU prices. The problem could come from other cryptocurrencies if they use a hash calculation that will benefit from GPUs and they start to be attractive on the market.

Anyways, what I've heard is that both AMD and NVidia plan to release specific crypto-mining cards that will be using older architectures (so, not being a competence for the silicon forges of the current gent gaming GPUs) but that as they will be purpose built, they will be better than newer gaming GPUs for the mining. That way those companies can keep doing money from the old-gen forges while not putting more strain on the new-gen gaming market.
Reignman wrote:
27 Nov 2020 22:28
I have a strict "no used tech" policy lol. Even for something cheap and temporary. Under the circumstances I might have to reconsider that policy however. If I have to wait another 6 months, I'll have to upgrade this pile of crap if I want to keep my sanity.
I use to follow that rule too, but given the current situation, if you could purchase now something very cheap for $100 and in 3 months a desired GPU for $200; it's way better than to spent 400$ now on that desired GPU at the current insane prices. Of course, there's always the risk of second hand market.

Tough decisions...

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mackintosh
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#214 Post by mackintosh » 27 Nov 2020 23:01

Nothing wrong with used tech imo. It's really hard to kill modern hardware. My i7 980X ran overclocked for 10 years (@ between 4,3 - 4,6Ghz) on an 11 year old X58 motherboard. First as my main rig, then as a backup/server. I finally retired both a week ago mostly due to a climbing power bill. Unless the hardware in question was used for extreme overclocking, it's unlikely to have suffered component degradation, even if it was ran out of spec for years on end. Considering most used GPUs are at most 2 years old, it's even less likely. Obviously, you never know with dishonest sellers, but I owned several used GPUs over the years and never ran into any issues (touch wood).

Some newbie driver
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#215 Post by Some newbie driver » 27 Nov 2020 23:18

Problem with second hand graphic cards (something that has diminished a bit recently, but was very true not so much ago) is that most of the ones in the market came from mining farms where they were "burnt". Most of us use the the personal computer a limited amount of hours the day and not even all of them we are struggling the GPU at 100%. Those mining-GPUs were put at 100% utilization 24/4 for 2 years no less; and that's the equivalent of 8 to 10 years of the usual work that they had to support on a usual domestic environment and with the extra stress of never had cool-down periods. So, purchase second hand GPUs were like playing Russian roulette not so far ago.

But as the market so crazy as it is actually; it's the only solution I see for Reignman to not have to wait 2 more months before be able to use the new computer. That or to stay on they medieval graphic card on the new computer (but that could be a problem on drivers, maybe, due the jump on SO version).

I think that as soon as he finds the CPU he will not resist anymore the temptation to power on the new rig with whatever GPU he can put on it, even if it has to fit it with a hammer. :lol:

Some newbie driver
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#216 Post by Some newbie driver » 28 Nov 2020 12:42

Some newbie driver wrote:
27 Nov 2020 22:49
So no, Bitcoin mining will not return to affect gaming GPU prices. The problem could come from other cryptocurrencies if they use a hash calculation that will benefit from GPUs and they start to be attractive on the market.
Well, I've just saw some news about NVidia shipping a lot of new gen cards directly to miners, probably Ethereum ones. But anyways, that should had covered 10% of the demand at most. Not small chunk but not solving at all the scarcity or the scalping problem.

And it's far far away from the sales volume crazyness of the first crypto-currency wave that hit the GPU market.

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Reignman
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#217 Post by Reignman » 28 Nov 2020 16:27

Some newbie driver wrote:
27 Nov 2020 22:49
The problem could come from other cryptocurrencies if they use a hash calculation that will benefit from GPUs and they start to be attractive on the market.
Yeah I meant other cryptocurrencies. The price of bitcoin is up, so that usually means the other cryptocurrencies go up to, and apparently the new 3000 series works good for that. But I guess I don't have to worry so much about that yet because demand is driving up prices high enough already lol.
mackintosh wrote:
27 Nov 2020 23:01
Nothing wrong with used tech imo. It's really hard to kill modern hardware. My i7 980X ran overclocked for 10 years (@ between 4,3 - 4,6Ghz) on an 11 year old X58 motherboard.
Well actually I probably won't have a choice there. If I get an old GPU it would most likely be a 700-900 series and I don't think they sell those new anymore haha. Whatever I could get for around $50. I could get a small new SATA SSD that I could then use in the new rig later too. Other than that, then I'd need to find 2GB sticks of DDR2 memory. Newegg was selling them new for $14 a kit. I can't really upgrade the CPU because I already have one of the best for a socket 778 motherboard. I can't upgrade to an i series chip.
Some newbie driver wrote:
27 Nov 2020 23:18
Problem with second hand graphic cards (something that has diminished a bit recently, but was very true not so much ago) is that most of the ones in the market came from mining farms where they were "burnt".
I don't think a 700-900 series GPU was ever used for farming, hopefully, but I don't know how long this has been going on. I just need something a little better than my 9800GT that supports directX 11-12, and I think the 700 series was the first to do that. Ebay has some GTX 750 ti's for around $50.
Some newbie driver wrote:
27 Nov 2020 23:18
I think that as soon as he finds the CPU he will not resist anymore the temptation to power on the new rig with whatever GPU he can put on it, even if it has to fit it with a hammer. :lol:
Haha yeah probably. But wow, Best Buy has the 3700X on sale for $280 today, so I'm fighting every urge to not pull the trigger on that. 8 cores, and it's similar to a 5600X? So tempting because I hear it's better than a 5600X for someone who will be using it for more than just gaming. I'll be doing other tasks, including some multi-tasking, so those extra 2 cores might come in handy. The problem is, I still have no solution for a GPU and I don't want to put my 9800GT into it, so it would be sitting around for a couple months while I wait. $280 sounds like the best bargain I've seen in over a month, when you consider the cheapest 3600 I could get right now is $292 through Amazon because everyone else is sold out xD. This is how Bezos is worth $200 billion.

Some newbie driver
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#218 Post by Some newbie driver » 28 Nov 2020 18:03

When I said you to search for a cheap graphic card was aiming to find a way to be using the new PC ASAP, NOT that you also had to spend extra money on a SATA SSD (no matter that you could use it later) or even on older RAM. The target is to save the wall of the damn GPU purchase the first CPU you find at a deal good enough now and done, finish the built. Because if you don't find good prices now, you aren't going to find them in 3 months at least. The 3700X for that price isn't that bad; it would be better any one of the 3600 range but at the insane prices and 0 availability they are... AMD will take 1 month more to release any 5000 series on the $200 price range and 1 month more to have normal availability (at least); and it will be less good for productivity because of course it will have less cores.

It seems you had to sacrifice a good price on the CPU in order to have all the other you wanted (with GPU delayed)

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Reignman
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#219 Post by Reignman » 28 Nov 2020 18:14

A 3700X at $280 with a 1660 Super at $240 keeps me near the same budget as a 3600 with a 2060. The problem is, I can't find a 1660 Super for under $260 atm, so I'd still have to wait who knows how long to get one. And a 1660 Super is not a very good match for a 3700X, but would be good enough for 1080p. I already got my 1080p monitor, so 1440p isn't an option anymore anyway. The $280 price tag for the 3700X is a temporary holiday sale. The normal price is $330-$350.

The 5600X beats the the 3700X in gaming, but the 3700X wins when it comes to programs, rendering, and multi-core applications. Sure the 3700X is overkill for 1080p gaming, but it should work great for the other things I plan to do. Man I really don't want to have to wait another 2-3 months to finish building this rig lol.

I had my heart set on the 5600X paired with a 3060 (whenever those come out), but I probably won't get my hands on either for 3-4 months, and my 1080p monitor bottlenecks both of them. The 3700X just seems to make more sense for what I have in mind. Well the 3600 would, but I'm not paying over $200 for one of those, or $400 for a 2060. I'm just not sure how long the $280 price will last for the 3700X ... ahhh now I see the small print, the sale ends today, so they're not giving me much time to think this over lol.

Some newbie driver
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#220 Post by Some newbie driver » 28 Nov 2020 18:18

Then take the 3700X, purchase a second hand graphic card, mount that new PC, fire it up and in a few months kick the second hand VGA and purchase a 2080 super for the price you would had been purchasing a 2060 now (because once there will be availability of the 3060Ti, the 2080 Super is going to be ultra-devaluated.

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