Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

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Reignman
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#411 Post by Reignman » 31 Mar 2021 06:12

Some newbie driver wrote: 28 Mar 2021 13:35Remember too that the best performance of RAM timings on AMD platform is when you have a 1:1:1 ratio between the different clocks of the CPU, Infinity bus and RAM bus. So, it's not enough to activate the XMP profile, you have to tune also the CPU. if you have done it (I suppose so, due your explanations); you could still probably jump to around 40% on that scale.
No I don't think I tuned the CPU. I noticed it's speed is set at 3700 though, so do I need to tune that down to 3600? I figured DOCP did all that.

And never mind that smell, that's just me cleaning out my pants. Just a bit ago I had the fear of god thrust into me xD. Oooooo boy, yeah just had my first major scare. Things have been running fine the past few days, so today I decided to plug in an old 1 TB HDD. Haven't used it in a couple years. It used to be my main boot/OS drive but a PC crash ruined the bootmgr. After setting up a new HDD on my old rig, I plugged the damaged drive in as a slave to salvage all my important data, and then it sat in a box until today.

So anyway, I plugged it into my new PC today, went into the BIOS to see if it was recognized, and it was, so I booted up, and it went through a very lengthy repair disk operation (7 hours) even though it's not the boot drive. That part seemed to go fine though, other than how long it took. After it finished, I didn't see the HDD listed under "My Computer" however. There was a drive letter for it, but no details, size, free space etc, so I clicked on it anyway. After a few minutes it shot some kind of I/O error at me. Figured I'd reboot the PC to see if that would help, but the PC wouldn't shutdown. I kept clicking shutdown, but it'd just sit there. Finally it went to the shutdown screen with the dotted circle thing, where it sat for a good 15-20 minutes. Which is where the worrying began lol. I didn't want to force a shutdown by hitting the power button, but I had no idea what was going on, or how long it would sit there.

I went to the other room to do some stuff on my old PC, and when I came back the new PC was just sitting on the MB screen, so panic attack #2 kicked in xD. I pressed F2 to enter the BIOS, but it took a little longer than it should to get there. Everything looked fine in the BIOS, old HDD still recognized, so I exited and let it reboot, but it hung on the MB screen again, but this time I couldn't enter the BIOS. I waited for a little while, but it just sat on the MB screen. The onboard error LED's indicated there was a boot issue, so I flipped the power button to turn the PC off. Then I removed the old HDD thinking that was causing all the problems.

This time when I turned the PC on, I got nothing lol. All the fans started up like normal, but there was no display. GPU fan was twirling too, so I assumed it was working. This time the LED's indicated a CPU issue, and I think that's the moment I might have died for 10-15 seconds. CPU light, no display? Fuck me, the BIOS rolled back didn't it? Can it even do that? I was going to have to slap the 3100 back in and do that painful step all over again, wasn't I? Lucky I hadn't returned it yet. Or worse, I fried the CPU somehow? But first, I hit the reset button a few times because it didn't seem to be do anything, and then FINALLY the LED's went through their normal cycle and I got back to the BIOS. Whewwww first time I was able to breathe in a few minutes. Everything still looked normal in the BIOS, it was still at the latest version and the 5600X was still there, but it rolled my RAM back to default speed even though DOCP was still active, so not sure what's wrong there, but that's the least of my worries atm. I exited out, and this time it went straight to windows without delay. Then I restarted the PC again real quick just to make sure everything was working normal, and whewwww everything seems to be back to normal. I gotta go set the RAM again though.

Do I need to keep the 3100 lol? I seriously don't know if a MB BIOS can rollback, and that would certainly screw me if it did. I'm also terrified to put another mechanical HDD back in, but my 500GB SSD is filling up fast. I did have my 2 newer HDD's in and working fine before this older HDD messed everything up, so maybe it's safe. I took those out when I slapped the old one in. But maybe I should just order a couple more SSD's and just not deal with the mechanical HDD's anymore?
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mackintosh
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#412 Post by mackintosh » 31 Mar 2021 07:35

What motherboard? Are you using PBO?
Some newbie driver
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#413 Post by Some newbie driver » 31 Mar 2021 13:23

If you wanna mess with old untrusted HDD, use an external USB dongle

If you plug them directly to mobo different nasty things can happen depending on the problem the disk can have and the mobo BIOS itself. On an external dongle, at much a "dumb" USB device will freeze but that will not affect the whole system.

And NO, on regular consumer mobos the BIOS changes will not rollback by themselves. Several brands even lock the possibility to change to an older BIOS once a newer is flashed. Even prosumer motherboards with dual bios use to auto-flash the second once the system auto-test itself after reboot that the flashing on the main one has been done OK.

Regards
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mackintosh
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#414 Post by mackintosh » 31 Mar 2021 14:38

They do, actually. I've had an automatic CMOS clear for no discernable reason at least twice. AMD AGESA is wonky at best, and full of bugs.
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Reignman
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#415 Post by Reignman » 31 Mar 2021 23:33

mackintosh wrote: 31 Mar 2021 07:35What motherboard? Are you using PBO?
ASUS TUF Gaming x570 Plus (WiFi) ... it supports PBO but I haven't adjusted it. I'm not going to mess around with any overclocking until down the road sometime, after I get everything setup and I don't run into any issues. One less thing to troubleshoot if I end up with a problem. Plus I'll have to do a lot more research because I don't understand most of those settings xD.
Some newbie driver wrote: 31 Mar 2021 13:23If you wanna mess with old untrusted HDD, use an external USB dongle
Interesting, I just watched a video about those and I might have to get one. Is USB 3.0 fast enough to keep up with a HDD? I'm wondering if you can play games or run programs off that kind of setup, or is just for extra storage? That would be neat if you could swap out HDD's that easily, that would almost make an internal as convenient as an external. Eventually I plan to have another, bigger M.2, and a couple of SATA SSD's.

What I did for now was use my old PC to comb through the stack of old HDD's I've had laying around. Everything I wanted to keep I transferred to my new 2 TB HDD, which I bought just a few months ago. Then I moved the 2 TB HDD to my new PC, which is working fine. I had it in this PC before for a few days without any issues. The HDD that gave me the scare yesterday definitely has some serious issues with it. I played around with it in my old PC yesterday but couldn't get it to read, so I pulled out my handy Linux disk (Parted Magic), which has helped me recover data from unreadable HDD's before, but even that had issues with this one. From what little it could read from the HDD, it only has 9 folders, and all are empty. It should have nearly a TB worth stuff on it, so yeah definitely some stuff missing lol. I don't think I had anything important on it, but there was some stuff that would have nice to recover. I managed to get the important stuff off it when it got corrupt a couple years ago (with parted magic). So somehow it deteriorated even more since then.

I have one other 1.5TB HDD that I'll be using, but it'll stay in the old PC for now, in case I need to do more things over there. I just formatted it today and installed a fresh copy of Windows 10 on it, so it shouldn't give me any issues either. Now I can finally give the old PC the thorough cleaning it needs and new paste on the CPU/GPU before I pack it away. I'll hang onto it until I know the new PC has long term stability. I mean so far so good, but you never know. I got more to install and setup. Plenty more opportunity for Reignman's Law to sneak back into my life like it almost did yesterday xD.
mackintosh wrote: 31 Mar 2021 14:38They do, actually. I've had an automatic CMOS clear for no discernable reason at least twice.
You had a BIOS rollback? How do they get the original BIOS software on a motherboard? For example, my MB shipped with BIOS version 2407 and I updated it to 3602. If I clear my CMOS or it happens accidentally, what version would my MB rollback to, version 1, 2407, or stay at 3602? Cuz how would the factory get version 2407 to stick if my 3602 update won't stick? My CPU will stop working if it rolls below version 2607 and I won't have a spare CPU laying around to get back above 2607 xD. If the 3200G ever comes back into stock at $100, maybe I'll buy it as an insurance policy.
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#416 Post by Some newbie driver » 03 Apr 2021 16:56

mackintosh wrote: 31 Mar 2021 14:38 They do, actually. I've had an automatic CMOS clear for no discernable reason at least twice. AMD AGESA is wonky at best, and full of bugs.
You are confusing terms mackintosh. CMOS clear options (button, jumpers, or the same effect if no power and mobo batery is exhausted) only clears configuration values of the BIOS stored in the CMOS volatile memory of the BIOS. Reignman was talking about BIOS rollback, so, BIOS returning to an older version of its code. In those cases, it applies what I explained.

And yes, AGESA can be a nasty bugger sometimes.

Regards
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Reignman
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#417 Post by Reignman » 09 Apr 2021 20:28

New PC still running fine. I've had a bitch of a time trying to find the right fan curves however. Good grief, the CPU fan was constantly revving up/down over every little thing, even just surfing the web. All I'm doing is refreshing a GPU page over and over and the RPM's go up/down with each push of the button lol. Why is my CPU going from 50C idle to over 70-80 refreshing a page? Just a bit annoying.

In other news, I level'd up my GPU again lol. It's becoming a game of getting to a 3000 series GPU one step at a time. I started with the 13yo 9800GT, then last month I bought the GTX 750 so I could finally start using my new PC, and now I bought a 1650 Super for $169. Brand new. An absolute steal at $169 when they're selling for $400-500. The 1650 Super that Newegg canceled on me last month was $220, and I thought that was a good deal. Never thought I'd be this excited to get a 1650 Super lol. I'll have no problem getting my money back selling it when I get the GPU I want, and now I can relax a little and ride out this ridiculous storm awhile longer.

I've had ZERO luck trying to buy a 3000 series, and I've lost 20 Newegg shuffles in a row. Based on rising prices, I think Newegg is starting to scalp it's own products now too. They've only had $500 3060's and $750 3070's in their shuffle lately. Today they're only offering 6700xt's, and all of them over $620. Plus they're doing more and more combos, which means if you win, you gotta buy a PSU or MB with your GPU.

Last Friday I was soooo close to landing a 3060ti FE from Best Buy ($399) that I almost passed out from being too excited. I got the card all the way to checkout, where they emailed me a verification code to continue, which I thought reserved the card ... but after I entered the code I got a message that says they don't deliver to my area. Soul crushing! I changed it to have them deliver it to my nearest BB store, but then it said it didn't deliver there either lol.

I was a little pissed off at that point. I mean if they know they don't deliver to my area then why not tell me that before I try to order it so I don't waste my time and put myself through all that emotional trauma? Well turns out that message only means they ran out of stock. Pretty devastating way to tell someone you're merely out of stock lol. Because I thought I wouldn't be able to rely on BB anymore, and they're one of the best shots I have right now. The problem is, they only drop GPU once every 2 weeks, so if you miss out, you have a long wait to try again.

I saw a 3060ti FE sell for $4000 on ebay last month, so yeah it'd be pretty sweet to land one of those lol. And this past week someone bought a 3090 FE for $10,500, so yeah, things are getting pretty serious xD.
Some newbie driver
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#418 Post by Some newbie driver » 11 Apr 2021 20:18

Reignman wrote: 09 Apr 2021 20:28Why is my CPU going from 50C idle to over 70-80 refreshing a page? Just a bit annoying.
CPUs reach high temperatures yes, but they have not so much thermal inertia; after all they are a piece of silicon of a few grams, you can't store so much energy in there. What I mean is that, at the moment you start doig something, ANYTHING, the "idle temp" ramps up very fast to the "working temp". At higher temperatures the increase is slower because your cooler will be actively working against that temperature, but at 50ºC the cooler is at very low speed on a normal curve so that helps too the temperature to ramp up fast and then the cooler has to catch the gap.

To avoid that you have to modify the fan curve. The cooler must be working a bit more at the idle temperature so its ramp up curve doesn't need to be so much stepped when the temp will reach working point. That means that at iddle, it would sound a bit louder.

AIO coolers doesn't have so much a problem because their thermal inertia is way bigger and bigger air coolers give you more room to avoid those jumps. If I remember well, you settled with the stock AMD cooler. It's good, it will do their job to keep your CPU fresh enough for regular use. But then you have to deal with that kind of thins as like with any regular-sized cooler.

Regards
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Reignman
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#419 Post by Reignman » 12 Apr 2021 00:53

Yeah that's a good point. Yep stock cooler for the 5600x, but I'm already thinking of buying a better one. The default fan curve was 25% at idle with a steep climb when it reaches 50-80 C, so that's where the revving has been happening. I changed it to 40% at idle and no increase until 70 C, so that took care of the revving, and the temps look fine. I don't mind a steady humming sound, it's the constant up/down revving that was driving me nuts lol. I do have 1 case fan that has a vibration when it gets above 50%, so I have to figure why it's doing that.

Otherwise I can't wait until the 1650 Super arrives on Thursday. I held my breath until I finally got the tracking info, so at least it didn't get canceled this time haha. The 750 has been a decent temp card these past few weeks, but the quality during video capture has been less than ideal. The raw video is better than expected, but editing/rendering degrades it a little, then uploading to YT degrades it even more. I'll post a sample in my parking doubles thread later.
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mackintosh
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Re: Potential New PC Build, Thoughts?

#420 Post by mackintosh » 12 Apr 2021 08:37

7nm AMD CPUs run stupid hot. Get an AIO. My 5900X often spikes well above 80C and that's with a custom water cooling loop.
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