Spain pre-research tips

Some newbie driver
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Re: Spain pre-research tips

#11 Post by Some newbie driver » 21 Jan 2019 20:34

The person responsible of the plates is going to hate Iberian DLC. :mrgreen:

Some newbie driver
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Re: Spain pre-research tips

#12 Post by Some newbie driver » 21 Jan 2019 21:28

I've just remembered that SCS has been adding a few old iconic vehicles to the AI traffic, depending on the country.

In that case, the vehicle SCS must include for Spain is the Seat 600, no discussion possible:

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEAT_600

Image

For the rest of the AI traffic, the game already has most of the usual vehicles on Spanish roads: Seat Toledo, Renault Megane, Citroen C4, some Peugeot models and VW Golf. Only the Seat Ibiza model should be added to have a realistic mix of vehicles in traffic. Maybe some medium-size Japanese all-terrain vehicle (Nissan, Mitsubishi, Toyota...) usualy seen on rural zones.

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LAFAYET47
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Re: Spain pre-research tips

#13 Post by LAFAYET47 » 21 Jan 2019 21:38

We should post as well some concept map, which cities do you think should be there 100 %? (In terms of trucking and economy relevance)

Some newbie driver
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Re: Spain pre-research tips

#14 Post by Some newbie driver » 22 Jan 2019 18:25

France actual map (it lacks Corsica and zones near Pyrenees) has a surface similar to Spain and 23 cities + 2 small cities (Bourges and Roscoff) plus 5 nuclear plants. So, if the density of the map remains the same, we can expect aproximately 30 destinations on Spain. We have to consider also the map scale of the game. I mean, there's a lot of relevant places that are too near ones from other to appear as independent destinations. Peripheral zones of Madrid and Barcelona are clear examples; there exists several "secondary" cities bigger and more relevant (for trucks) that some other that for sure will be included in the future.

We can take Paris as an example; most of the companies' yards linked to Paris locations are really on other towns or cities (as the road signs indicate). So, we have to think on a list of relevant cities or locations that keep enough distance between them at the same time. I'm thinking on that list in no particular order:

Barcelona
Tarragona
Zaragoza
Pamplona
Bilbao
Burgos
Santander
León
Gijón
La Coruña
Vigo
Valladolid
Salamanca
Madrid
Teruel
Castellón
Valencia
Alicante
Murcia
Albacete
Ciudad Real
Badajoz
Huelva
Sevilla
Algeciras
Málaga
Jaén
Almería

This could cover all the map with a fairly even spacing between cities and most of them are big enough and with relevant industries needed of trucks.

Regards

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EdgeGladiator
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Re: Spain pre-research tips

#15 Post by EdgeGladiator » 23 Jan 2019 11:57

I made a concept map with the cities that could be and should be there :

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewe ... 222874&z=6
Image

id037
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Re: Spain pre-research tips

#16 Post by id037 » 26 Jan 2019 18:37

I've decided to make like a review of the A-8 highway in northern Spain, as I've made many trips on it, so I will post its main features and the vistas you can find. I know that it's impossible to fit it all with the scale of the game, but hopefully it can help you.

1. AP-8/A-8 sections
The AP-8 / A-8 highway connects all the northern coast of Spain. It starts at the border with France, in the city of Irún, and ends 590 km later in its connection with the A-6 highway.
It has two names but it can be considered to be the same highway. From its start in France until its connection with AP-68 in Bilbao it's named AP-8 (AP meaning "Autopista de Peaje" or Tolled Highway). From Bilbao to its end it's named A-8.

In the Bilbao area, the highway has two sections. The main highway coming from France becomes A-8 and a new AP-8 stretch appears to the south. Trucks are forbidden in the A-8 stretch through the city (unless they use any of the exits to Bilbao) and must go through N-637 (to the N of Bilbao) or the "Supersur", the AP-8 stretch south of the city.
Image

Signs announcing the prohibition on A-8 (they appear coming from any direction to Bilbao):
https://www.google.es/maps/@43.342358,- ... 6656?hl=en
https://www.google.es/maps/@43.3421157, ... 6656?hl=en
https://www.google.es/maps/@43.2461049, ... 6656?hl=en

The most used road by trucks is the N-637, since it's toll free. However, the A-8 section is maybe more interesting and maybe we could enter Bilbao to deliver some cargo in order to be able to use this stretch (or just ignore the prohibition in the game).

The Supersur (AP-8) is a newly built highway (2011) which was supposed to take traffic away from the A-8 running through the city. Its infrastructure is amazing, running most of the time through tunnels under the mountains, and with tall bridges to cross the valleys between them. As I said it's not used as much as the N-637 because of the tolls and because only part of it has been built. I guess it's mostly used by trucks going to/coming from AP-68, and works started in January 2019 to connect them directly.

After leaving Bilbao, the highway is called A-8 (so toll free) all the way to its end.

2. Rest stops
In order from east to west.
- km 8
- km 22
- km 54
- km 100
- km 130
- km 195; https://www.google.es/maps/@43.3901577, ... 6656?hl=en (typical modern Repsol gas station)
- km 208 (parking only)
- km 247 (eastbound only, parking only)
This rest area is quite small for trucks and not far from the next one in this list, so maybe it could be present only as scenery. It was closed ever since the highway opened in 2002 and was finally opened in summer 2018. It was kind of a mysterious place for the people who use this highway frequently because of a monument.
Image
https://www.google.es/maps/@43.3217974, ... 6656?hl=en
As you can see in the photo, there are pictures of people from all cultures hanging inside the building, which makes for a bit of a creepy sight, which was even more accentuated by the impossibility of stopping there for all those years. Apparently, its meaning is about the connections that infrastructures make between cultures and people of different races.
http://www.vamosacantabria.com/encrucijada/
https://www.eldiariomontanes.es/region/ ... 28-nt.html

- km 256
- km 302
- km 340
- km 394 This is currently the last rest area with full services (fuel station, restaurant...) of the A8. From here to the end you'll have to exit the highway to refuel or eat.

There are, however, some areas half-prepared for the future:
- km 490
- km 522
- km 573

3. Vistas and other points of interest
A summary of the A-8: lots of turns (especially twisty in Gipuzkoa), tunnels, bridges, cuts in the terrain, mountains everywhere and beautiful views of the sea.
- Bridge above Oria river
- Big cut in the mountain
- Danger, turns (next 21 km)
- Each direction goes on one side of the valley: westbound, eastbound
- AP-8/AP-1 interchange (note: now here both lanes coming from Bilbao continue (here's a more up to date image) and here there are now 2 lanes to AP-8 and 2 to AP-1, like these signs show)
- Guggenheim Museum sign (also coming from the west)
- Views of Bilbao
- Main entrance to Bilbao
- AP-8 Supersur bridge
- First sight of the Bilbao area when you come from the west
- La Arena bridge (with Petronor refinery to the left)
- Looking to the sea and coast
- More sea
- Tunnel and beach
- Same beach from bridge
- Colindres bridge
- Snowed Picos de Europa, https://www.google.es/maps/@43.3396627, ... 6656?hl=en
- Downhill towards Unquera going east (Asturias-Cantabria border)
- More sea
- More mountains
- Osborne bull near Llanes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_bull)
- One of my favourite views on the highway: going down towards the sea, https://www.google.es/maps/@43.4365598, ... 6656?hl=en
- Same place but going eastbound, depending on the year you can see some remnants of snow in Picos de Europa even in summer
- At the foot of the mountains
- Bridge above the Sella river and views after the tunnel (eastbound)
- And more views of the sea
- Longest tunnel on the A-8, and as you come out of it you enter another one
- And after that tunnel you cross this bridge (view going east)
- Industrial zone in Gijón
- Monument and bridge on the A-8/A-66 interchange
- Another Osborne bull near Avilés
- One of a few bridges after Avilés
- Concha de Artedo bridge, view going east
- From that bridge the highway gets twistier until Luarca, and passes through yet more bridges with breathtaking views, like this one, this one or this one
- Navia bridge (just south of it there is a paper mill; wood industry and especially eucalyptus plantations are very extensive all along the A-8)
- The bridge between Asturias and Galicia
- After some km the A-8 leaves the coast and starts climbing towards the south. Some views: 1, 2, 3.
- Wind farm on the top
- Highest point on the AP-8/A-8 and more views
- This stretch between Mondoñedo and Abadín is very prone to dense fog and can be closed for several consecutive days, especially in summer. There are many signs to warn about the fog: 1, 2. They have installed all types of lights, but they are pretty much useless because you can barely see them with this kind of fog, so the only solution is its closure :roll: (done automatically)
- After Abadín the highway runs through easier terrain, with more straights and lots of trees and fields until its end, connecting with the A-6 highway

As I said before, I know that not everything can fit but I wanted to post the most interesting places of the highway and I hope it's useful.

4. Roadworks
The next few years are going to be busy with works on the A-8 highway.
- The stretch from Solares to the Cantabria-Basque Country border is going to have 3 lanes per direction and I think the same will happen with the stretch between Gijón and Avilés (as well as the A-66 from Oviedo to its connection with the A-8).
- In Torrelavega the A-67 sections will be connected so that people don't have to use the A-8 to continue on A-67.

5. Videos
- Entire length going east:
Baamonde-Barreiros
Barreiros-Avilés
Avilés-Ribadesella
Ribadesella-Solares (sunnier: Ribadesella-Unquera & Torrelavega-Solares)
Solares-Bilbao (sunnier: Laredo-Castro & Castro-Bilbao)
Bilbao
Bilbao-Oiartzun
Oiartzun-Biarritz (FR)

- Highways around Bilbao:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_O_KluEYAE (A-8 eastbound)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiQub2mxSmU (A-8 westbound)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j52UVWQQiqg (AP-8 Supersur eastbound)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a5-3NIWRKY (N-637 westbound)

Real time videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToIxzRZ ... vOfUcYF8v1
Last edited by id037 on 20 Feb 2020 10:00, edited 14 times in total.

Some newbie driver
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Joined: 12 Dec 2018 11:37

Re: Spain pre-research tips

#17 Post by Some newbie driver » 27 Jan 2019 11:00

Nice report id037

You remembered something when put the Osborne bull picture. For those who doesn't know, Osborne is a liquor manufacturer and years ago started to build lots of billboards shaped as a black bull silhouette and scattered through all the country near the roads. Osborne was marketing one of it's products, but with years those billboards become so iconic that now are cultural heritage protected by law. In fact, years ago a law forbid the installation of billboards too near and facing the roads to avoid driver's distractions. The only exception to the law were those black bull billboards (no more can't be added, but all the existent ones where amnestied).

Other details I want to comment about Spanish roads:

1- Traffic lights color cycle ion Spain is the same than in France: solid red -> solid green -> solid amber for brief time -> solid red. In case the traffic light is "disabled", it will operate in single-light flashing amber. Two lights alternate flashing amber is not a traffic light but a warning signal (for example, dangerous junction ahead)

2- Whenever there's construction works on a road, all white on road signaling will be substituted by yellow. So, white painted road lines will be yellow instead and white on vertical signals will be yellow (yellow background on max speed limit signals or yellow border and numbers on recommended speed signals, for example).

3- Blue color is reserved for highways and red for main roads identification numbers, either central-administration or state-administration owned. Beyond that, every state can "freely" label the roads. It's not really free, they are certain rules, but the palette of colors isn't uniform at all. It's a mess due the degree of decentralization we have here.

All those things are explained on the link I left you on the first message, but there's a lot of documentation and it will be tough to read it all (and translate it)

Last but not least: I don't know if there's a fitting song in Portuguese, but when you finally tease Spain for your game to use that song is mandatory: :mrgreen:

id037
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Joined: 20 Jan 2018 16:32

Re: Spain pre-research tips

#18 Post by id037 » 27 Jan 2019 19:41

Some newbie driver wrote:
27 Jan 2019 11:00
Nice report id037
Thanks!

And that would certainly be a fitting song :lol:

Some newbie driver
Posts: 3647
Joined: 12 Dec 2018 11:37

Re: Spain pre-research tips

#19 Post by Some newbie driver » 31 Jan 2019 17:31

It's not an specific info about Spain, but as SCS used to add new kind of industries and cargoes with every DLC (increasing variety), I've thought about some cargoes that coulb be considered to add on a future hypothetical Iberian DLC.

First, 3 cargoes for food tanker trailer (poor one, now only carries milk): olive oil, sunflower oil and wine. Vegetable oils for food purposes use to be tanked when delivering for big food companies that made processed food. Wine use to be tanked by 2 reasons: for bottling cheap "white marks" of wine (they buy the raw material where they found it cheaper, even if it's far away) or to manufacture pure alcohol for industrial purposes (surplus of low quality wine is often used).

One new cargo for semi-lowloader trailer could be olive trees. Very old centenary (even millenary) olive trees are very valuable; either to be moved to new productive areas or to be used as decorative trees in expensive garden projects. It's not a usual cargo but neither strange, I use to see at least 1 truck shipping olive trees every two-three weeks.

It makes me think also that adjacent to AP7 highway, north of Barcelona, there's a plants nursery company with a big area filled only with olive trees. Some are "regular" trees but some others have been never trimmed for production purposes, so they grew straight and tall and now are like huge pillars of hard centenary wood. It's something very unusual to see, there's a Google Street View link: https://www.google.es/maps/@41.7225271, ... 384!8i8192 One of those could be a very impressive and nice special cargo. :mrgreen:

And talking about special cargoes, there are some very important windmill manufacturing factories on Spain, maybe could be a good moment to add this kind of cargo and it's related very long trailers to the game (you have already modeled the wind-mill blades into the game). Also Spain (together with southern France, it could be a great addition for Toulouse-Blagnac zone) has a few but important aero-spatial industries. Some very oversized but but light AND fragile cargoes like aviation parts could be a good addition. Here's a link describing the Airbus operations in Spain: https://www.airbus.com/company/worldwid ... spain.html

Regards.

id037
Posts: 29
Joined: 20 Jan 2018 16:32

Re: Spain pre-research tips

#20 Post by id037 » 04 Feb 2019 16:12

In the last DLCs you gave more importance to the different kinds of vegetation in each region, so I searched some information about it. The government has this interactive map (in Spanish, but Google translates it fairly well) which is a bit tedious to use because you have to choose each kind of tree for it to appear and you can't choose more than 10 layers at a time (base map included). Still, it could be useful.

To see the different trees:
- In the upper part click on the "Tabla de contenidos" button.
- Click on "añadir servicio".
- Open Banco de Datos de la Naturaleza (BDN) -> Ecosistemas -> Mapa forestal de España.
- In "Formaciones arboladas" you can see the trees, select one and on the right lower part click the "añadir servicio" button.
- There is a rubber icon to delete the layers and with the bar you can set the transparency of each layer.
- You can also choose "Mapa forestal de España, máxima actualidad" to see where are forests, crops, built areas, etc.
- In the "tabla de contenidos" window select "leyenda" to see what each color represents.

- In "Agricultura" > "Mapas de cultivos" you can also see the different kinds of crops.
- In "Cartografía general" you can choose another type of base map (Mapa base del IGN) which may let you see better the different colors and also a satellite view (Ortofotos PNOA máxima actualidad).

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