Guessing the Western Balkans DLC content
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Re: Guessing the Western Balkans DLC content
How should I know? I don't live there.
Also this is just my guess. You are very welcome to present your own
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Also this is just my guess. You are very welcome to present your own
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If something is not round, it has then edges or it is broken.
Re: Guessing the Western Balkans DLC content
You don't need to live there to know. You literally only need to click on the name on Google Maps to see what exactly you are adding, and it will tell you. Even on Google Maps in your language (yes, I checked out of curiosity) it says Delčevo ist eine Stadt im Osten Nordmazedoniens when you click on it.
My own guess, though incomplete, has already been brought up and discussed earlier in this thread.
My own guess, though incomplete, has already been brought up and discussed earlier in this thread.
Re: Guessing the Western Balkans DLC content
I don't think Delcevo is getting added either way. It will either be Shtip or Strumitsa.
Re: Guessing the Western Balkans DLC content
Yeah, me neither. I don't think it will even be featured as a scenic town, even if a connection to Blagoevgrad is made, because space is going to be pretty limited, especially with E79 starting more west than it should (once again, thanks Pernik!).
Štip is highly likely indeed. Strumica less so, but still a much better option than Delčevo.
Štip is highly likely indeed. Strumica less so, but still a much better option than Delčevo.
- oldmanclippy
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Re: Guessing the Western Balkans DLC content
This whole DLC hinges on whether or not they can do the border crossings well. If they botch those, the whole DLC is doomed.
We have 6 countries that border the Western Balkans region. Italy, Austria, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, and Turkey. Of those, only Hungary (Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia) and Bulgaria (Serbia, North Macedonia, Greece) border more than one Western Balkans country. Italy will likely have additional ferry connections to some combination of Croatia, Montenegro, Albania, and Greece. Someday Turkey could get a ferry connection to Greece but we'd need Izmir for that AFAIK.
This isn't necessarily an exhaustive list, but here's some border crossings from the existing map I have in mind:
Turkey <-> Greece:
E84/E90. This one is pretty obvious and we already have signs pointing this way in-game.
Bulgaria <-> Greece:
E85. I feel pretty confident in my Google Maps sleuthing skills on the importance of this border crossing for trucks https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7580726 ... a=!3m1!1e3
E79. This is a road we should get all the way to Thessaloniki, so no surprises there.
Bulgaria <-> North Macedonia:
The Dread E871. Pernik screwed us over royally here, but I don't think SCS has much of a choice but to make it work. You can't just not have Sofia and Skopje connected.
Bulgaria <-> Serbia:
E80. This is a pretty massive crossing and is the main route from Sofia to Belgrade.
Romania <-> Serbia:
Romania 6A to Serbia SR-34. Thanks to the excellent work of @JolliciousJosh, I didn't have to come up with this one on my own
E70. They'll just have to find a way to get this one in, it's a very important crossing, Timisoara's poor placement on the map will just have to be worked around. I'm confident they can find a solution. The Romania Serbia border is too long for only one (ferry) crossing.
Hungary <-> Serbia:
E75. This is an obvious one.
Hungary <-> Croatia:
E71/E65. Budapest to Zagreb, what more needs to be said.
E73 takes us to Osijek and later on Sarajevo so I think it's valid if they can pull it off. Hungary R58 to Croatia D53 is an alternative as well and would take us to Slavonski Brod. There's options for the second crossing here.
Hungary <-> Slovenia:
Hungary M7 to Slovenia A5 is the only one that makes sense IMO but it's a bit close for comfort to the E71/E65 crossing between Hungary and Croatia. Nothing a bit of shifting and finagling can't solve.
Austria <-> Slovenia: (We will probably find out a bit more about the possibilities here when the Austria rework releases)
E59. Connects Graz and Maribor.
E61. Oh yeahhh an under-mountain tunnel border crossing. Too cool to pass up. Connects Klagenfurt with Ljubljana.
Italy <-> Slovenia: (honestly I have no idea what they'll do here)
E61. This has got to be one of the most over the top border crossings in Europe. Look at it: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.7011281 ... a=!3m1!1e3
I think that's it. Adding Trieste is gonna be challenging enough as it is without throwing more crossings into the mix.
...
That's 14 border crossings *just to get into the DLC*. This is gonna be an insane DLC to pull off. Might be their greatest challenge yet. At least Texas has lots of space to play with besides DFW, and even that can get shifted around to make room. The Western Balkans are really tight and need ridiculous numbers of border crossings.
14 sounds like a lot, but looking at it on a map it seems not all that unreasonable if still incredibly daunting:
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They might have to do fewer than 14. Slovenia in particular is gonna have room for little else besides border crossings.
We have 6 countries that border the Western Balkans region. Italy, Austria, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, and Turkey. Of those, only Hungary (Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia) and Bulgaria (Serbia, North Macedonia, Greece) border more than one Western Balkans country. Italy will likely have additional ferry connections to some combination of Croatia, Montenegro, Albania, and Greece. Someday Turkey could get a ferry connection to Greece but we'd need Izmir for that AFAIK.
This isn't necessarily an exhaustive list, but here's some border crossings from the existing map I have in mind:
Turkey <-> Greece:
E84/E90. This one is pretty obvious and we already have signs pointing this way in-game.
Bulgaria <-> Greece:
E85. I feel pretty confident in my Google Maps sleuthing skills on the importance of this border crossing for trucks https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7580726 ... a=!3m1!1e3
E79. This is a road we should get all the way to Thessaloniki, so no surprises there.
Bulgaria <-> North Macedonia:
The Dread E871. Pernik screwed us over royally here, but I don't think SCS has much of a choice but to make it work. You can't just not have Sofia and Skopje connected.
Bulgaria <-> Serbia:
E80. This is a pretty massive crossing and is the main route from Sofia to Belgrade.
Romania <-> Serbia:
Romania 6A to Serbia SR-34. Thanks to the excellent work of @JolliciousJosh, I didn't have to come up with this one on my own
E70. They'll just have to find a way to get this one in, it's a very important crossing, Timisoara's poor placement on the map will just have to be worked around. I'm confident they can find a solution. The Romania Serbia border is too long for only one (ferry) crossing.
Hungary <-> Serbia:
E75. This is an obvious one.
Hungary <-> Croatia:
E71/E65. Budapest to Zagreb, what more needs to be said.
E73 takes us to Osijek and later on Sarajevo so I think it's valid if they can pull it off. Hungary R58 to Croatia D53 is an alternative as well and would take us to Slavonski Brod. There's options for the second crossing here.
Hungary <-> Slovenia:
Hungary M7 to Slovenia A5 is the only one that makes sense IMO but it's a bit close for comfort to the E71/E65 crossing between Hungary and Croatia. Nothing a bit of shifting and finagling can't solve.
Austria <-> Slovenia: (We will probably find out a bit more about the possibilities here when the Austria rework releases)
E59. Connects Graz and Maribor.
E61. Oh yeahhh an under-mountain tunnel border crossing. Too cool to pass up. Connects Klagenfurt with Ljubljana.
Italy <-> Slovenia: (honestly I have no idea what they'll do here)
E61. This has got to be one of the most over the top border crossings in Europe. Look at it: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.7011281 ... a=!3m1!1e3
I think that's it. Adding Trieste is gonna be challenging enough as it is without throwing more crossings into the mix.
...
That's 14 border crossings *just to get into the DLC*. This is gonna be an insane DLC to pull off. Might be their greatest challenge yet. At least Texas has lots of space to play with besides DFW, and even that can get shifted around to make room. The Western Balkans are really tight and need ridiculous numbers of border crossings.
14 sounds like a lot, but looking at it on a map it seems not all that unreasonable if still incredibly daunting:
[ external image ]
They might have to do fewer than 14. Slovenia in particular is gonna have room for little else besides border crossings.
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Re: Guessing the Western Balkans DLC content
I like your detailed analyses of various things, @oldmanclippy, and this is another great one.
However, I think you might be putting a bit too much emphasis on E-routes. They are not exactly like Interstates. While they follow high-speed freeways whenever possible, oftentimes there simply aren't any, so the E-route just follows whatever smaller road is the nearest, and can potentially be omitted, or swapped for another road.
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It might seem like the road to Greece can be connected to that little straight stretch of A4, but that space is already occupied by the scenic city of Svilengrad. It will likely have to be nuked to accommodate the required interchange, and I'm not counting on it.
But realistically speaking, I'm not counting on either. We should have gotten used to SCS leaving big holes in the map by now anyway
Also, what do you mean by ferry crossing? The 6A/SR-34 connection is a bridge.
I definitely don't think SCS will go that far, I'm not even sure they'll add Trieste. But at least one connection between Italy and Slovenia is definitely a must.
However, I think you might be putting a bit too much emphasis on E-routes. They are not exactly like Interstates. While they follow high-speed freeways whenever possible, oftentimes there simply aren't any, so the E-route just follows whatever smaller road is the nearest, and can potentially be omitted, or swapped for another road.
I really don't think this is going to happen. They left no blocked interchange for this road, and in fact the existing Bulgaria - Turkey border crossing is already so big that the rest of Bulgaria's A4 has to curve backwards:oldmanclippy wrote: ↑16 Sep 2021 21:57Bulgaria <-> Greece:
E85. I feel pretty confident in my Google Maps sleuthing skills on the importance of this border crossing for trucks https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7580726 ... a=!3m1!1e3
[ external image ]
It might seem like the road to Greece can be connected to that little straight stretch of A4, but that space is already occupied by the scenic city of Svilengrad. It will likely have to be nuked to accommodate the required interchange, and I'm not counting on it.
I honestly think they might have to redo Pernik and shift it more to the east. Not only this will give E871 more breathing space, but also make it easier to continue E79 south to Thessaloniki. Upon which an additional border crossing with NM could be done near Blagoevgrad.oldmanclippy wrote: ↑16 Sep 2021 21:57 Bulgaria <-> North Macedonia:
The Dread E871. Pernik screwed us over royally here, but I don't think SCS has much of a choice but to make it work. You can't just not have Sofia and Skopje connected.
I'm still extremely skeptical of this. I honestly believe the Timișoara/E70 problem is just unsalvageable. Meanwhile, the Jimbolia border crossing seems to be only a little smaller than the E70 one, so I think it would be a viable substitute.oldmanclippy wrote: ↑16 Sep 2021 21:57Romania <-> Serbia:
Romania 6A to Serbia SR-34. Thanks to the excellent work of @JolliciousJosh, I didn't have to come up with this one on my own
E70. They'll just have to find a way to get this one in, it's a very important crossing, Timisoara's poor placement on the map will just have to be worked around. I'm confident they can find a solution. The Romania Serbia border is too long for only one (ferry) crossing.
But realistically speaking, I'm not counting on either. We should have gotten used to SCS leaving big holes in the map by now anyway
Also, what do you mean by ferry crossing? The 6A/SR-34 connection is a bridge.
Hopefully the Hungary's M6 - Croatia's A5 freeway will be completed by then, so that E73 doesn't have to detour through small roads.oldmanclippy wrote: ↑16 Sep 2021 21:57E73 takes us to Osijek and later on Sarajevo so I think it's valid if they can pull it off.
...And then there is ProMods, which has three border crossings just between Trieste and Slovenia alone Though not without taking space from the sea as well as some significant cheating with the borders on the background map.oldmanclippy wrote: ↑16 Sep 2021 21:57Italy <-> Slovenia: (honestly I have no idea what they'll do here)
E61. This has got to be one of the most over the top border crossings in Europe. Look at it: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.7011281 ... a=!3m1!1e3
I think that's it. Adding Trieste is gonna be challenging enough as it is without throwing more crossings into the mix.
I definitely don't think SCS will go that far, I'm not even sure they'll add Trieste. But at least one connection between Italy and Slovenia is definitely a must.
- oldmanclippy
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Re: Guessing the Western Balkans DLC content
@IvanKuz Thanks for your feedback, yeah I probably do put too much emphasis on E-routes. With regards to the ferry crossing, that was a misinterpretation I had. I thought one of the signs on street view had a ferry symbol but I double checked and that's not the case, plus you can see a truck going towards the bridge over the dam from here: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6765071 ... 312!8i6656
The Timisoara/E70 crossing is gonna be a massive challenge, so maybe that Jimbolia crossing would be a better option.
I do not envy the SCS research team. This DLC will be a massive headache to plan.
The Timisoara/E70 crossing is gonna be a massive challenge, so maybe that Jimbolia crossing would be a better option.
I do not envy the SCS research team. This DLC will be a massive headache to plan.
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blog screenshot IRL maps: Greece | Nordic Horizons | German Cities
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prediction maps: Greece+Nordic Horizons | Nebraska+Arkansas+Missouri
Re: Guessing the Western Balkans DLC content
@oldmanclippy, @IvanKuz What about Plovdiv and Makaza as a Bulgaria-Greece crossing. That seems to be the most likely route. Especially considering how detailed the southern Plovdiv exit is.
Re: Guessing the Western Balkans DLC content
So you know why they are delaying it as long as they can ...oldmanclippy wrote: ↑16 Sep 2021 21:57 That's 14 border crossings *just to get into the DLC*. This is gonna be an insane DLC to pull off. Might be their greatest challenge yet. At least Texas has lots of space to play with besides DFW, and even that can get shifted around to make room. The Western Balkans are really tight and need ridiculous numbers of border crossings.
Re: Guessing the Western Balkans DLC content
It would certainly be a welcome inclusion, but I'm not sure if SCS will be able to pull it off. This route goes through some mountains, and Plovdiv's urban labyrinth is already taking up like a third if not a half of the available space there.