Wishlists Megathread

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krmarci
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Re: Wishlists Megathread

#3761 Post by krmarci » 31 Aug 2020 08:26

crazycrinkle wrote:
30 Aug 2020 21:48
[...]
Garage related management

Garage Purchase costs
Change: Increase small garage prices to €200k and upgrade to 5 person garage is €750k
How to implement: Just change the values the game uses for purchases.
When this mechanic is introduced to the game: From the starting level 1.
Why this is good for ETS2: In 2012 (game's release date) the world was a few years into a financial crisis, and economic turmoil. Also the original values of €180k for a garage and €100k for an upgrade may have seemed reasonable, at the time, but once you hit a certain level, those costs are trivial. Why is the upgrade so much more expensive? Well if you compare the actual garage models, it looks like the 5 man one is completely different, meaning the whole thing gets demolished and rebuilt, the €100k upgrade cost seems laughably small to me. Don't get me wrong, this would only delay the point at which costs for garages / upgrades become trivial.

Garage purchase costs dependant on location
Change: I dont know if the cities in game currently have some indicator/number assigned to them based on if they are a town, city or capital, but it seems to me that prices (as suggested above) should also be subject to a multiplier based on the nearest town's size.
How to implement: Give all towns a default value of "1" as in a town/small village. Then go through and change it for the biggest 5-10 cities to "1.5", and for each country's capital, change it to "2". This value acts as a multiplier for the garage costs (€200k in a small town, €300k for a big city, and €400k for a city, upgrade costs also multiplied in same fashion). Additionally, each country itself could also modify these costs further, countries with smaller sizes could be cheaper to start in, e.g only 0.5x the normal costs, whereas bigger countries like Germany or France could pay 1.0x costs, or even more. I guess it makes sense that those countries not using the EURO perhaps have smaller costs. For easy reference below, i will refer to this as the Location Multiplier System (LMS)

When this mechanic is introduced to the game: From the starting level 1.
Why this is good for ETS2: It adds more variety to the costs, and thus makes a player think more critically about where they can afford to expand to. At the minute, there's no distinction between costs for a garage in the UK, Poland or Bulgaria, meaning there is essentially no difference or financial implication based on where you decide to expand to.

Weekly / Monthly Garage costs
Change: In some countries, even if you own a building, you still have to pay some sort of "ground rent" and/or what is known as "National Non-Domestic Rates" (NNDR) in the UK (a tax on businesses by a local council, for paying for local police, hospital, fire services, care and support in the community etc). There should be a charge which each garage incurs, and as above, these costs could just have a base rate and then be altered based on the Location Multiplier System (LMS)

Furthermore, what above the costs of security guard, cleaners, lighting etc? These could be a separate cost and again, be controlled by the (LMS). As a final modifier, there could be slight increases to services costs depending on how many drivers are working there (cleaning and electricity costs would increase).

How to implement: Add a ground rent, NNDR and other charges associated with actually owning a building. Also add a base rate for services as above, all modified by the (LMS). A button could be added to the "purchase confirmation" screen where you can click on a breakdown of the costs associated with that garage, this would enable you to see if you are able to afford to buy/expand before you make the big decision. Additionally this screen could show the tax brackets (see suggestion below). The charges should probably be paid every 7 days, and perhaps you get an "email" from your accountant confirming costs to be paid, four days before payment is made (at midnight every 7 days, see below for more on accountant emails.
When this mechanic is introduced to the game: From the starting level 1.
Why this is good for ETS2: Pretty much at the minute, there is no negative charge to owning a garage, other than actually purchasing it in the first place. So once your business reaches a certain stage, financial failiure is not a possibility. Varying costs might make it impossible to start off in certain garages. The ground rent/charges/NNDR system could vary or not even exist for some countries, making them cheaper, more attractive starting/expansion points. At the minute whether your start location is a small Turkish town or the outskirts of Berlin city, the purchase cost is the same and there are no costs to think about after that.

The above two suggestions are designed to make a player think harder about where to start off, and also think tactically about where they expand to.


Business/Income/Corporation taxes
Change: At the minute, there is no tax to pay on profits, but most countries charge taxes to businesses based upon their income. Different tax rates could be implemented, again to make starting in certain countries easier.
How to implement: It would not be hard to implement actual real-world tax brackets for each country and you pay tax based upon those amounts. Or a simpler solution is just to have a blanket figure for all europe, but have the tax amount varied just a little, again this could be under the (LMS) system. Another realistic option is that most multinationals pay lower tax except for the country in which their "Head Office" (i.e the player's garage) is located.

How this would work in game: At the start of the month, you get an email message from your accountant, telling you the profits for last month, and how much tax needs to be paid on it. It'd be great if this email had just an overall summary, including a "days remaining:" countdown, but then you could click an "expand" button to break down the profits in each country, what tax bracket / % you are in for that country, and thus how much tax needs to be paid. Additionally, the accountant message could also highlight any garages that are not making profit (although this could also be added to the financial summary page that each garage already has in the garage manager. This tax would automatically be paid out of your bank account at midnight on the last day of the month/ every 30 days. The idea of giving a month/30 days is so players have time to take steps to meet their tax payment.
When this mechanic is introduced to the game: From player level 10, after a new player has got comfortable with the earlier mechanics of the game.
Why this is good for ETS2: There are two things certain in life, death, and taxes. if ETS2 doesnt have the first, it should have the second to feel more realistic. Not only this, if the player has not paid attention when purchasing a garage in a new country to the tax brackets, a breakdown gives them a chance to realise they may not be able to keep operating in that country, and sell up and stick to the cheaper countries.
[...]
These are great ideas! One thing I would change though is that the garage price should be somewhat based on real-life real estate prices (like the fuel prices) rather than the multiplier system you made. I agree with the need for corporate taxes and more overhead costs.
crazycrinkle wrote:
30 Aug 2020 21:48
[...]
Driver management

Drivers quitting
Change: After a driver has been employed for perhaps 60 days, add a very tiny chance that they might leave the company.
How to implement: At midnight each day, a check is performed on if a driver has been with the company for 60 days or more and if so, roll a random number from 1-1000, and if the result is less than 3, a message pops up saying the driver left the company, and a unused truck is now sitting in garage X.
When this mechanic is introduced to the game: From the starting level 1.
Why this is good for ETS2: This is a cheap trick to add realism, people move jobs and quit all the time.

Drivers upgrades require training
Change: At the minute drivers automatically "level up" and get new skills, but it would be more realistic to have to train them, and spend money on training courses. It could even be the case that you can add up to 15 drivers to a training course, to take it together, and whilst being trained, they do not take jobs and are sort of out-of-action. I would suggest that for the ADR training, each category is it's own course, but the Long Distance, Eco Driving, Fragile Cargo etc is just a one time course, after which they can level up that skill automatically.

How to implement: I would advise a "training" button be added to the main "escape" menu, along the bottom. Where you could see a list of all courses in table format, with costs, and also a column for how many drivers can take that training. You could click a button or symbol to open up more details about each course, especially it's length, and have a "drag and drop" mode where you can click on individual drivers to add them to the course (and a tip could appear when you hover over each driver telling you if they are on a delivery, or resting, and if not the delivery's reward, to aid you in deciding who to put forward for training.
Why this is good for ETS2: This adds an extra layer of management for your employees. At the minute, besides hiring them, you have no interactions, just need to put them in a garage slot, give them a truck, and never even think about them again.

Drivers going to jail!
Change: Add a random chance, like drivers quitting, except much rarer that a driver will be caught people smuggling and be sent to jail, immediately leaving the company, and the company is fined a fee based on the size of the company /number of owned garages.

How to implement: At about mid day, every two days, roll 1-2,000,000 on each driver and if it's under 3, the driver is caught and prisoned, the fee the player has to pay could be something easy to calculate such as (number of owned garages) x €20k
When this mechanic is introduced to the game: From about level 20, so as not to overwhelm lower-level players with too many things to think about.
Why this is good for ETS2: This is a random chance event to impact both the business finances and personnel, but also if the company is small, the fee is low so there's very little chance a player would be bankrupted unless they are completely inept in how they've expanded, so they wont feel like they've lost due to an unforseeable "act of god".
[...]
Drivers quitting is a good idea.
Training might add a bit too much micromanagement, especially if you have lots of drivers. Maybe have the ability to set trainings to automatic (maybe hire someone who is responsible for sending them to training).
Drivers going to jail for human trafficking is a bad idea which would probably make this game a lot more "adult" than SCS wants it to be. However, I can see an option where our lower-level drivers are more likely to lose their license for offences (speeding, red light etc.) and be fired.

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Bandit & The Snowman
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Re: Wishlists Megathread

#3762 Post by Bandit & The Snowman » 31 Aug 2020 08:50

Great first post too, along with a few really nice ideas.
SCS didn’t want to make a game with a lot of economics stuff, they’ve always made truck driving games. So whether they pick up some of your ideas is a bit questionable. But it stands clear that in making the game very accessible for casual gamers (the majority) by making the start very easy, they accepted a very boring end game. This stresses the game’s principle that the journey is the reward. Most economy mods include a harsh reduction of income per km/mi to a more realistic level, which is something you might wish to add to your list.
In the end... unless you want to neglect the driving aspect in favor of a more realistic economy and company life, there’s no perfect setup. So I‘d like if some of the not so game-y suggestions you made were introduced, but not all.

plykkegaard
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Re: Wishlists Megathread

#3763 Post by plykkegaard » 31 Aug 2020 09:08

New choice in game options, like shifting, fuel, air, stability etc
Eg realistic economy: On / Off
Sorry, out of office

crazycrinkle
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Re: Wishlists Megathread

#3764 Post by crazycrinkle » 31 Aug 2020 10:35

Bandit & The Snowman wrote:
31 Aug 2020 08:50
But it stands clear that in making the game very accessible for casual gamers (the majority) by making the start very easy, they accepted a very boring end game. This stresses the game’s principle that the journey is the reward. Most economy mods include a harsh reduction of income per km/mi to a more realistic level, which is something you might wish to add to your list.
I'm glad you found a way in only as sentence or two what it took me a few paragraphs to convey! :D

Yeah the problem I have is i get to a certain point in each playthrough and while I still take a lot of deliveries, it starts to feel more of the same. In fact I usually get to a point where I myself am mostly buying garages and filling them, then fast travelling while the fleet earns me euros, rinse and repeat. That might sound tedious or boring for some, but for me I enjoy that little shift of gameplay for a time. I know it's a sandbox, so there's no way to "win" the game, but all the garage/driver/truck management stuff already in the game feels like it's intended later on for that purpose, but also feels like it is rather simplified, perhaps in just the same way there are constrol options from "simplified automatic" upwards, they could add a more detailed economic model for more experienced players to have more challenge in?

I'm already aware of many good economy mods, but didn't want to suggest lower rewards based on mileage as i imagine it a fairly common request, due to it's regular appearance in such mods.

Some newbie driver
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Re: Wishlists Megathread

#3765 Post by Some newbie driver » 31 Aug 2020 12:12

Realistic economy isn't something you can just toggle on-off in the options. If you mean "realistic payments for cargo" then yes. And even so, everybody has their own idea about what should be the level of payments to be "realistic". At the end, most people wouldn't agree with the value chosen by SCS and would end doing the same they already do: manually change the value in config files.

The rest of the economy, to be considered realistic, include things that don't even exist in the game and that, if they do, should be better to force them as an option for a new profile. To allow them to be toggled on/off at will could be a real mess in the save games and the working of the profile.

plykkegaard
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Re: Wishlists Megathread

#3766 Post by plykkegaard » 31 Aug 2020 12:20

Ahh thanks, I can see the problem 🙂
Sorry, out of office

RoxyQuarry
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Re: Wishlists Megathread

#3767 Post by RoxyQuarry » 31 Aug 2020 12:26

Nevertheless the economy that SCS is going with seems to be fine for the game, if its economy were identical to real life buying trucks, starting companies would be a pain. The trucks would be cheaper and interests rates at the bank would be lower but you would be payed much much less for a 500km job, maybe around 250 euros for such a job. If SCS adds this the option that you pick default or realistic would be permanent for each profile because switching the economy would result in a few difficulties in-game.
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plykkegaard
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Re: Wishlists Megathread

#3768 Post by plykkegaard » 31 Aug 2020 13:41

Used trucks might an answer
Sorry, out of office

RoxyQuarry
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Re: Wishlists Megathread

#3769 Post by RoxyQuarry » 31 Aug 2020 13:53

Yes but I don't see why SCS would add them. Currently within the game there are no defects that I would think that used trucks would get. Maybe some damage but without that there are no disadvantages of owning an used truck. If SCS doesn't find a way of making used trucks any worse than new trucks except with a bit of mileage and damage then many players would buy an used truck even though that they wanted a new Scania S. Cuz it's cheaper! ;)
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Some newbie driver
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Re: Wishlists Megathread

#3770 Post by Some newbie driver » 31 Aug 2020 18:49

Agree. Lot of times people request for used trucks to be added into the game and they don't realize that an used truck and a brand new truck in the game are only differentiated by a cheap bill in the garage (cheap considering the exaggerated income of the game). For used trucks to have any sense SCS would had to ad at least 2 things

- A wear values system for the trucks where not everything could be fixed to the same brand-new level.
- Visual wear and tear in the truck models, either exterior and interior, related to the wear values on the previous line.

Until that moment, used trucks is an oxymoron in SCS games.

Regards

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