A few mistakes.

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ohaha
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Re: A few mistakes.

#11 Post by ohaha » 20 Apr 2013 07:09

Keep in mind that the GetLocalization site is a "crowdsourced" type of place. There is a system of voting for the various submissions and some users might get higher "voting power" than others, if SCS considers so.
No one will guarantee that your version will make first place as the best rated, thus it might not make it into the game.
It's worth trying, though. I had the same issues with my language. I wanted to keep it professional and at a certain level of politeness (as French, Romanian has very polite forms for public addressing - polite plural, a lot of infinitives etc.). After the process got started, I saw everyone was going with their own approach. Some resorted to the familiar "buddy like" approach, but it just sounded awful, making the whole game seem like an "amateurish - bodged up - made with a hammer - in a garage" product. So, I spent many, many nights reviewing and correcting everything, telling the other guys to keep it at a certain level etc.
Oh, and there is an built-in message system, attached to every string, so you can point out mistakes, ask the devs about various details and other things you might think of.
:)
Retired, but still loving it.
Hyeron
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Re: A few mistakes.

#12 Post by Hyeron » 20 Apr 2013 07:32

ohaha wrote:Keep in mind that the GetLocalization site is a "crowdsourced" type of place. There is a system of voting for the various submissions and some users might get higher "voting power" than others, if SCS considers so.
No one will guarantee that your version will make first place as the best rated, thus it might not make it into the game.
Ah. Now we're talking. I never said my version would be perfect. I just try to provide my... "clients" with the best quality I can. If there's a better version, it should be used. Though I'm a bit worried about those things above having been voted as being the best ones, in that case. :lol:
It's worth trying, though. I had the same issues with my language. I wanted to keep it professional and at a certain level of politeness (as French, Romanian has very polite forms for public addressing - polite plural, a lot of infinitives etc.). After the process got started, I saw everyone was going with their own approach. Some resorted to the familiar "buddy like" approach, but it just sounded awful, making the whole game seem like an "amateurish - bodged up - made with a hammer - in a garage" product. So, I spent many, many nights reviewing and correcting everything, telling the other guys to keep it at a certain level etc.
Oh, and there is an built-in message system, attached to every string, so you can point out mistakes, ask the devs about various details and other things you might think of.
:)
That's quite reassuring, though my last (and only) crowdsourcing experience was me rewriting just about everything from scratch and the dev never answering any of my questions. Or releasing it, for that matter. ^^"
Well then, off to create an account. DWTFYWWI. :)
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altx
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Re: A few mistakes.

#13 Post by altx » 20 Apr 2013 13:06

I don't speak French (I'm Dutch), but I appreciate the effort that you put in this.
Iron Maiden's gonna get you
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Re: A few mistakes.

#14 Post by n4gix » 20 Apr 2013 13:36

Perhaps the greatest weakness of "crowdsourcing" of translation is that there is no control over the competency of the participants in the exercise. It is quite possible -indeed quite likely!- that some (many?) of them are still young students and are in fact failing their own school's language classes... :lol:

I "learned" French and German while a student at Leysin American School in Leysin-Feydey, Switzerland back in the dark ages (fifty+ years ago). Both languages were taught by an Englishwoman who was a former Italian opera soloist, and who was now teaching French and German in an American school located in Switzerland... :roll:

On top of that, many would accuse the Swiss of not actually speaking proper French or German (there were many jokes about "Scheisser Deutsch"), so my language skills such as they were then could be considered suspect...

In any case, any competency I may once have had has long since slipped under the ocean waves of oblivion. Yet, even so, I can see the gross errors in the French reductio ad absurdum that pretends to be a translation...
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Hyeron
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Re: A few mistakes.

#15 Post by Hyeron » 20 Apr 2013 18:52

altx wrote:I don't speak French (I'm Dutch), but I appreciate the effort that you put in this.
Geen dank hoor, tenminste zo lang er geen goede Franse vertaling is. :lol:
n4gix wrote:Perhaps the greatest weakness of "crowdsourcing" of translation is that there is no control over the competency of the participants in the exercise. It is quite possible -indeed quite likely!- that some (many?) of them are still young students and are in fact failing their own school's language classes... :lol:
Make that "most". It's scary. In 6 years, I've met one (1) actual translator in such projects, and that was while working on The Dark Mod, after a third one had ruined several months' worth of grunt work and hacking on a 1.0 version that had virtually NO support for localization. I'm still having nightmares about that.

On top of that, many would accuse the Swiss of not actually speaking proper French or German (there were many jokes about "Scheisser Deutsch"), so my language skills such as they were then could be considered suspect...
I dunno. Most French people don't speak proper French either (and the so-called Y-generation is even worse).
Just like most French people don't even know the big names in linguistics are actually Belgian. I suspect they'd have a heart attack if they checked who Goosse, Grevisse, Hanse and Blampain are. Those who survive usually flee when I tell them Blampain was one of my teachers in high school. :lol:
In any case, any competency I may once have had has long since slipped under the ocean waves of oblivion. Yet, even so, I can see the gross errors in the French reductio ad absurdum that pretends to be a translation...
Indeed, I've found more occurrences during my first run in the getlocalization repo. And I suspect this will be a pain to check in-game; there seems to be no way to export the translation and make it a mod. Looks like yet another long-winded job.
Oh well. At least I have an excuse to play more ETS2. :mrgreen:
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n4gix
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Re: A few mistakes.

#16 Post by n4gix » 21 Apr 2013 01:14

Hyeron wrote:Make that "most". It's scary. In 6 years, I've met one (1) actual translator in such projects, and that was while working on The Dark Mod, after a third one had ruined several months' worth of grunt work and hacking on a 1.0 version that had virtually NO support for localization. I'm still having nightmares about that.
I'll share something even more "scary..."

I spent several decades teaching graduate students at the University of Florida (Gainesville) College of Business. My first few years were spent in a nearly continuous state of shock, as these so-called graduate level students could barely write in complete, coherent sentences.

It is patently rediculous that I had to waste precious class time teaching these dullards basic English grammar...
...more so since I was supposed to be teaching advanced systems analysis and design! :o

One of my "pet peeves" though are those ignorant folks who don't know where to place the personal pronoun when speaking of a group action, such as, "Me and Bobby went to the movies." Argh! My 1st grade teacher gave us younglings two easy "rules" to forever eliminate this particular error.

1. Always put youself last in any group; after all, it's the polite thing to do!
2. Silently say your sentence leaving out everyone but yourself. Now you know which pronoun to use! You'd never say "Me went to the movies, would you? Wouldn't that just sound silly?
Fr. Bill
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Hyeron
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Re: A few mistakes.

#17 Post by Hyeron » 21 Apr 2013 16:09

Aaaand... Just as I feared.

To hell with this. Have fun.

You want to know what you've got on your hands on the French side of things? Two trolls, one who doesn't know better than not use expressions so old nobody uses them except in the medical field, the other one pretending to be a trucker and downvoting every translation used coming from docs from the constructors because yeah, what do Renault know, right (the only exception possible being when the dev has deliberately used something else)?
Unable to make the difference between commercial language and improper French.
Not knowing what "verbatim" means an/or unable to admit they're doing it for the most part.
WIth no respect for consistency.
Knowing each other and playing their little games together.

So there: to hell with this. Pity the French players.
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altx
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Re: A few mistakes.

#18 Post by altx » 22 Apr 2013 07:33

Can't you report them?
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ohaha
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Re: A few mistakes.

#19 Post by ohaha » 22 Apr 2013 17:40

Hyeron wrote:Aaaand... Just as I feared.

To hell with this. Have fun.

You want to know what you've got on your hands on the French side of things? Two trolls, one who doesn't know better than not use expressions so old nobody uses them except in the medical field, the other one pretending to be a trucker and downvoting every translation used coming from docs from the constructors because yeah, what do Renault know, right (the only exception possible being when the dev has deliberately used something else)?
Unable to make the difference between commercial language and improper French.
Not knowing what "verbatim" means an/or unable to admit they're doing it for the most part.
WIth no respect for consistency.
Knowing each other and playing their little games together.

So there: to hell with this. Pity the French players.
Too bad...
Retired, but still loving it.
Hyeron
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Re: A few mistakes.

#20 Post by Hyeron » 22 Apr 2013 18:41

altx wrote:Can't you report them?
I could, but I don't exactly see the point as the first thing they did was report me, saying II don't know what a parking brake is ( :roll: ) after I changed their translation with two valid possibilities and picking the more common one over the more... "technical" one - that is, changing "frein de parking" to either "frein de stationnement" or "frein à main", as the former is a proper french translaiton and avoids an english word that has a clear, clean French equivalent and the latter is the more common, albeit less precise, form.
I could, but I don't exactly have the time. I've got a full time dayjob, during which I try to work on the writing of another game. I've got kids, a divorce and my looking for an apartment on my hands. I 've got another translation and the rewriting of a third game for my evenings and weekends. ETS2 being what it is, it takes time to research whatever I don't have/know and check whatever I do have/know against the official terms in the field, and it's that much more work.
I could, but I can't exactly be bothered to argue with people who go against the advice of the Académie Française arguing that Wikipedia said it's OK not to put accent marks on capital letters. With people who are willing to argue against Renault, Scania et al. because they'd rather be using "retarder" as is, whereas every translation coming from constructors uses "ralentisseur", arguing that everyone does it, citing Scania - the same Scania that has a system called Retarder - note the usage of the capital, to describe their retarder (that is translated by them as "ralentisseur" too in the very description page of the system - see, I do research stuff, isn't that incredible). I can't be bothered to argue with people who accuse me of being verbatim when they can't use a commercial formulation for "enjoy" in the dealers' mails and prefer to use the verbatim and improper "profitez".

When I put in 2-3 hours of research about trucks, official translations and chemical components, plus the actual editing, I like it not going to waste in a matter of minutes.
I could if I actually had time and if it wasn't so pointless.

So I think I'll just keep enjoying the beta (in English), report whatever bugs I find (I've still got one up my sleeve) and relax a bit.
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