Steam inventory mods restiction discussion [Questions Answered]

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Mohegan13
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Re: Steam inventory mods restiction discussion [Questions Answered]

#251 Post by Mohegan13 » 07 Jan 2020 14:54

I wasn't referring to train at all. I was only talking about your incorrect assumption of percentage, percentage is irrelevant, it comes down only to one thing: Whether content not allowed is included or not. ;)
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Re: Steam inventory mods restiction discussion [Questions Answered]

#252 Post by cip » 07 Jan 2020 15:12

percentage was a fictive number :lol: to make it clear that if a mod contains even 99% edited content and 1% means the link with the DLC, that mod is good to go without discussion ;)
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train
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Re: Steam inventory mods restiction discussion [Questions Answered]

#253 Post by train » 07 Jan 2020 15:24

@Mohegan13 and yet I don’t think that trains are as valuable a resource as exclusive items given as a reward for events, moreover, in any case, the mod will require all DLC from which the materials will be taken. For example, I change the model and skin, but leave the chassis configuration file in the archives of the game, since I do not need to change anything in it. and I can to not transfer LODs to the mod, and in any case, this will not work without installing the DLC and will not be a bypass. but if this is such a big problem for you, I will wait for the introduction of the FMOD system into the game, maybe then I will not need to take the models

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Re: Steam inventory mods restiction discussion [Questions Answered]

#254 Post by cip » 07 Jan 2020 16:18

most probably Fmod will not automatically bring sounds to train immediately (at least not in 1.37) so I would say go ahead with the trains if you like, unless we get an official statement form SCS refusing this... :D
Enjoy driving with my Real Traffic Density for ETS2 and ATS
Enjoy listening my ATS Real Ai Traffic Sounds 1.36-1.37
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Some newbie driver
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Re: Steam inventory mods restiction discussion [Questions Answered]

#255 Post by Some newbie driver » 07 Jan 2020 22:33

cip wrote:
07 Jan 2020 15:12
percentage was a fictive number :lol: to make it clear that if a mod contains even 99% edited content and 1% means the link with the DLC, that mod is good to go without discussion ;)
Moheghan was only replying to that oversimplified fact that you said, and I think he (and I) understood ti it that way:

If you make a mod and any SCS asset is linked properly to owned DLC files, then your mod is 100% yours and there's no copyright issues. Since the moment you talk about a 99%-1% (or any other percentage, it doesn't matter); it means a mod that has something taken from the DLC files instead of linked. In that case, that use for copyrighted material is not allowed, never, and there's no discussion possible.

While it seems is that you understand the meaning of percentages in a different way. You talked about a mod 99% made by a player and the other 1% is content linked (again, % doesn't matter). But properly speaking, it's not, if that's the case it will be ever a 100% mod done by that player. There's nothing on the mod files that doesn't belong to him. That's why I suppose Mohegan replied you before, to clarify that.

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Re: Steam inventory mods restiction discussion [Questions Answered]

#256 Post by Mohegan13 » 07 Jan 2020 22:47

What he said. ^
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Re: Steam inventory mods restiction discussion [Questions Answered]

#258 Post by cip » 08 Jan 2020 08:39

I understand train's confusion because he asked a simple question, whether or not he can make a mod with edited DLC content without violating SCS rules and he got one straight forward negative answer (Madkine), 2 positive replies with explanations (Carl and me) and one rather negative reply from Mohegan which was not perhaps a direct reply to @train but it was still negative ("It is clearly stated you cannot use any art/textures/materials from DLC").
@Some newbie driver train and I never talked about copyright issues or ownership of the mod he might produce, train did not ask for this, he only wants to make a mod where he needs to edit DLC content and make it available.
I am the man of the numbers, I work with numbers, my mods are based on numbers, so my replies my include also numbers :lol: and numbers are relevant in this situation here it is why:
1. train needs to edit 0.1% of the Baltics DLC content (the damn trains) in order to add hookup sounds and release as a mod, while he would probably need or not to include textures (maybe he want also improved skins). he don't actually need the storage def files so these can remain in the DLC and thus make a dependency
2. if the DLC was called "Baltic Trains DLC" and @train would need to edit 99% of the entire mod and release it even with def linked to the DLC, this would be a problem for SCS! why, because people might use the mod (anybody can make a storage file) and SCS will not sell the DLC anymore! so numbers are important and relevant
besides, 99% (I like this number!) of the existent mods are SCS edited content, one of the few home made produced mods (from those I know) are the XBS great trucks. but even his trucks includes original automat files probably to avoid that other mods includes edited automat files and thus conflicting with the trucks. according to Mohegan's statement XBS trucks are not original content because includes SCS content and not links to them
so to end this in a positive way, dear @train if you want to make this mod, and you are afraid to publish it, please send it to me and I will publish it and take the responsibility for my action, while the entire credits will go to you!
Chartoo's message is very clear in this matter and I don't need to be a native speaker to understand it :lol: all that SCS wants is to make sure that people don't make mods which may jeopardize the DLC selling numbers. in this situation nobody ever bought the Baltics DLC for the trains and nobody will ever stop buying Baltics because @train released a mod with Baltics trains :lol:
regards,
cip
Enjoy driving with my Real Traffic Density for ETS2 and ATS
Enjoy listening my ATS Real Ai Traffic Sounds 1.36-1.37
currently on strike :D beta testings and bug reports are temporarily suspended from my activity until further decisions :lol:

Some newbie driver
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Re: Steam inventory mods restiction discussion [Questions Answered]

#259 Post by Some newbie driver » 08 Jan 2020 21:17

Your confusion @cip comes from the moment you are using terms that in a regular conversation means one thing, but in the law means a whole different thing.

General terms of copyright laws state that any material under copyright protection can't be used in it's original form for any different purpose than the initial (that includes how it has been distributed) neither manipulated (ANY kind of manipulation) to create another content without the permission of an author.

The few only exceptions to those general terms exist with the sole purpose of protect human rights far more important and prevalent than the legal copyright. For example, it's allowed to use copyrighted material without any author's permission AND in a very limited way, in order to talk about the existence of that original material. In the case of a video-game, to use screenshots or examples of videos or soundtracks of the game in order to do a review, a tutorial, an educational content for a classroom, or an opinion article. But no human right or any other legal right protects us from taking content of other authors to make a mod for a video-game. So, in the case we are talking here, we have to follow the general terms I stated in the second paragraph.

Now, if you exactly and precisely ask: "Can be legally EDITED the content of a DLC to ADD it to a mod", the answer is NO. It can't be EDITED (manipulation of the content) and it can't be ADDED to the contents of a mod (edited or not), because that would be unauthorized distribution of copyrighted material. End of (legal) discussion.

If you exactly and precisely ask: "Can a modder create content of it own that will work combined with original copyrighted content that will already be installed in the same system than my mod." Then the answer is YES; you are neither manipulating the original content neither distributing it with your mod.

So, if when you talk about "edit" or when you talk about %, you are using non precise terms that lead to confusion thus to contradictory answers. Edit is manipulate, edit is not take blender tools, look the original files and then create a file that defines where the HONK! sound of a train would be located (for example). And the % of what amount of edition will be in a mod is irrelevant, NONE is allowed. That's why you, when talking about %, no matter how hypothetic they could be, confused people. There's only two percentages that matters: 0% manipulation and distribution, 100% original content.

When you link your mod with any SCS content, you are not manipulating neither editing SCS content. So, it' doesn't mater if your mod has a 1% or a 99% of LINKED relations to SCS copyrighted material (and the other 1% is a commented line with your name on the mod files). That would still be a 100% original mod of yours with 0% others authors content. So, it will be perfectly legal and fine (and SCS give us the tools and info necessary to ease our work in this way).

Hypothetical over-simplified example: Let's suppose I want to start to do mods making dirty skins for trailers. But I'm so lazy that the only thing I do is to copy SCS texture files, add it some "dirt" with the paint, put the changed files on a mod structure and publish it so all the players could praise me as the new God of mods. :roll: WRONG. I would have infracted the copyright law in two essential terms: manipulating original copyrighted content and distributing it. Now, let's suppose I learned to use some more proper program than the paint, and I create some kind of transparent layer with the dirt that my mod will apply over the SCS skin. I put both thing on my mod version 2.0 and publish it. WRONG :!: I would still have infracted the copyright law because I would still be distributing copyrighted material without permission. Time later, let's suppose I finally learned to "code" the SCS files, and now I did a mod v3.0 that links the original skins to whose I relate my layer with the dirt. The mod I distribute doesn't have anymore the files of SCS on it (even if the reason is just I'm so lazy to copy them, what matters is the SCS files are not on my mod :idea: ). RIGHT. That would be the way to do a 100% legal mod. Even if , instead for ETS/ATS, you were modding for a game published by the most infamous game company, one that would handle relations with their players on the worst way possible; they couldn't legally do nothing to avoid you do a mod in such a way.

Any other questions, of derivatives of that I explained you (if your brain arrived alive to the end of the wall of text :P); all those infinite discussions you could find all over Internet, have nothing to do with the state of the law. They are about moral terms, brainless rants, list of wishes of how some people would like to change those laws and so on. But that's not the topic we are talking about here.

Regards

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Re: Steam inventory mods restiction discussion [Questions Answered]

#260 Post by cip » 08 Jan 2020 23:05

dear @some newbie driver, thank you for all your long comments and this one in particular, that I managed to read entirely :D From legal point of view you are right in all what you said, and SCS rules aren't different. However SCS gave to us the ok to edit SCS content and release as a mod and respect basic rules, that if that content comes from a DLC not to jeopardize that DLC, that's it. oh, and one more rule, the distribution must be free for all players, if a mod is paid and include SCC edited content, that's where problems start.
I have the Emergency pack for both games and both includes edited SCS content, if I am not right in what I say, no problem, SCS, Chartoo or whoever else looks for SCS business shall please ask me to remove the mods and I will, no problem, I go back driving and make mods for myself only ;) traffic density mods are also edited sii files, shall I remove these mods also? Ai traffic sounds is also SCS edited content, because I add sound links and my sounds to Ai, but +55.000 Steam users respectively +30.000 for sounds won't be happy but if needed I will, no problem SCS only need to say it ;)
so thanks again for your time, but all I did I just replied positively (as my opinion) to a simple question, can be the train mod with DLC content shared to the community ? I am not bringing every single piece of law that exists in my answers, because that's not the case here, there is no copyright infringement here since SCS gave us the ok so edit content, and because the mods are free by definition!
Enjoy driving with my Real Traffic Density for ETS2 and ATS
Enjoy listening my ATS Real Ai Traffic Sounds 1.36-1.37
currently on strike :D beta testings and bug reports are temporarily suspended from my activity until further decisions :lol:

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