SCS General Discussion Thread

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Midiangel
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#16661 Post by Midiangel » 27 May 2022 18:07

Fair. However, pressure on business is only in relation to Russia, and not to other countries. Therefore, the release of the DLC was postponed.
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VirtualTruckTravels
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#16662 Post by VirtualTruckTravels » 27 May 2022 19:50

@Double M everything Scs does is marketing, marketing, marketing. Its pretty obvious, they took this turn 3-4 years ago when their streams and hashtags started, then they invented the "best community" phrase and people suck it Up , thinking Scs are genuine, because they where in the past. Scs has just become so big a company that it is big business, so Money and views/DL exposure to new customers, weigh more than caring for their current customers and Long time fans. Its sad but this is how every big business become.
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Sora
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#16663 Post by Sora » 27 May 2022 19:51

Double M wrote: 27 May 2022 16:31 I know that they are not to blame for the current situation, but this is a game and you should not mix politics with games. SCS is mixing the game with politics and that's not good for the game.
Why not, exactly? Many great, famous works in all media are deeply political. This has been true for an extremely long time.

And sometimes it's not even avoidable. Take the matter of representation, for example: if you include certain minority groups in your work, people will immediately call it woke and leftist, but if you exclude them completely people will call you close-minded and exclusionary. There's no magic, apolitical solution to a binary problem where both choices make someone upset.

HoR is kinda like this: they had the choice of releasing DLC that relies heavily on Russian nationalism, or treating Russia differently as a result of their actions. It isn't difficult to process that both decisions will feel political to someone.

The idea that media should avoid being political is a frankly stupid demand. It isn't consistent at all with historic works, and it isn't even necessarily possible. It virtually always feels like a roundabout way of saying "no, not THOSE politics! Only support mine! Nobody else's!". It's a particularly popular view among people who have been so thoroughly brainwashed by the status quo that they fail to even recognize the ironclad politics said status quo is founded on.
JaDaKa
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#16664 Post by JaDaKa » 27 May 2022 20:01

VirtualTruckTravels wrote: 27 May 2022 19:50 @Double M everything Scs ... every big business become.
I disagree with everything. Marketing is not just to make your product more popular but also to get closer to your fanbase and understand better what they want.
I literally can't see what's wrong with hashtags etc or trying to get the community closer together. If it is concentrated it is easier for them to hear its voice.

And surely SCS is one of the best gaming companies out there, especially in the Simulator genre.
You have no idea how bad Microsoft Flight Simulator is or even Farming Simulator especially compared to ETS2/ATS.

In the first case they literally ban people on their forum just because they voiced concerns over some broken elements of the game and bugs. They got tired of it and started banning anyone mentioning them.
Farming Sim, they have no direction about the game, have pretty much ruined it for a large part of its playerbase shifting it to console friendly just for the extra sales, disappointing the PC community.

SCS for whatever delays it has, it has a clear direction, listens to its playerbase and delivers.
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#16665 Post by JoeAlex23 » 27 May 2022 20:33

If you think SCS not wanting to release HoR is only about "politics", please, just leave...

It's way more deep than that, but some people really refuse to understand it.
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#16666 Post by Optional Features » 27 May 2022 22:41

JaDaKa wrote: 27 May 2022 20:01
VirtualTruckTravels wrote: 27 May 2022 19:50 @Double M everything Scs ... every big business become.
I disagree with everything. Marketing is not just to make your product more popular but also to get closer to your fanbase and understand better what they want.
I literally can't see what's wrong with hashtags etc or trying to get the community closer together. If it is concentrated it is easier for them to hear its voice.

And surely SCS is one of the best gaming companies out there, especially in the Simulator genre.
You have no idea how bad Microsoft Flight Simulator is or even Farming Simulator especially compared to ETS2/ATS.

In the first case they literally ban people on their forum just because they voiced concerns over some broken elements of the game and bugs. They got tired of it and started banning anyone mentioning them.
Farming Sim, they have no direction about the game, have pretty much ruined it for a large part of its playerbase shifting it to console friendly just for the extra sales, disappointing the PC community.

SCS for whatever delays it has, it has a clear direction, listens to its playerbase and delivers.
I have to disagree with you on Farming Sim. While the developer is terrible, the games they have created are far superior to what SCS has created, largely due to the robust modding community that the games support. You can find mods for anything; players can easily make new mods (and don't need to make miniscule changes over the course of weeks to keep them working), and improvements made to the game are often just community mods turned into default features.

Again, I have no love for that developer either, but in terms of my impact on the game world as a player, Farming Sim is far superior. There's a reason so many more people are playing and even more extreme numbers are watching those people play. It's a nearly completely player driven experience compared to an almost completely dev driven one.

This even extends to modding itself: pretty much every mod for an scs game is just sensory (actual visual improvements, trucks, trailers, sounds, etc). Any major changes to the game are done almost exclusively by scs, at a slow pace, over the course of many, many years. Most major game changes for FS come from the community, every couple years, in groups. All GIANTS really has to do is sit back and let the community improve the game for them.
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#16667 Post by VirtualTruckTravels » 28 May 2022 00:11

@JaDaKa If it is better that the community is closer, then you would not need all the hashtags etc. they have their own forum, the one we are sitting on now, with many many users with alot of ideas for improvement, no need to spread it all over diffrent SoMe's if it had the purpose you claim.
All the hashtags, streams, "best community" is only sales driven, to get exposure and gain new customers, this is how the world works. You are free to think otherwise ofcourse, but i think you are fooling yourself.

And your "whataboutism" with MSFS and FS and what their devs are doing, has nothing to do with the debate of SCS.
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#16668 Post by Optional Features » 28 May 2022 01:33

The best community ever hashtag is nothing more than a slogan: devs are pretty much invisible on wishlist threads, and game development over a decade for ETS2 is slow at best.

But I think comparisons to MSFS and FS are useful to the conversation. I won't mention MSFS directly now, but to continue my point about developer vs player driven gameplay, a good example: attacher joints.

Farming Sim allows players to attach basically anything to anything else with the right code (and simple code as well). ATS and ETS2 only allow one truck to connect to one trailer.

So players reasonably were excited when SCS introduced default, multi-joint trailers such as triples and turnpikes in the US. But players, me included, are again waiting on SCS to allow us to separate these sets at deliveries or in a company yard. And even if that happens, we might be waiting a third time for SCS to allow us to build our own sets of various components.

FS? If you want to haul triples, you can haul triples. Get bored and decide you want to haul 10 trailers? Connect them up and away you go. Take them apart, put one trailer connected to the bumper of the truck or tractor if you desire. You decide.

For SCS games, SCS decides. And SCS has locked down so much of their game that players can't even improve it on their own without outrageous amounts of time and skill.

There's one guy in the ATS community with a functional, separable lowboy. There are public, somewhat functional lowboys for GTA. There are likely dozens of functional lowboys for Farming Sim, including one pack I put a lot of work into. And in a strange turn of things, many of these models are ripped from ATS and made functional elsewhere.

SCS would benefit greatly from a change in approach, letting players have more freedom to edit the game world in game, choose how and what they haul, and more specifically configure trucks and trailers.

To give a simpler example, if SCS made coloring books, they'd have special crayons that only worked on certain areas of the page, and entire pages covered with ink. GIANTS would have a cover and a bunch of completely blank pieces of paper with a bunch of randomly assorted drawing instruments.

One approach is doing way too much; the other is doing way too little, but it somehow still works out.
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Marcello Julio
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#16669 Post by Marcello Julio » 28 May 2022 02:11

JaDaKa wrote: 27 May 2022 17:37 I am of the guys who wouldn't have any issue with it being released. It is about a game, in a digital world that has absolutely no effect in real life, and even more to a country which is at war.
As long as there were no SCS posts saying "how glorious Russia is, enjoy HoR" I don't mind, the reality is there is a country there where trucks still move to.
I mean most European countries still buy gas & oil from Russia and I would get mad for a game depicting Russia?

That said I don't mind if we never get it if SCS considers it would harm their image or they don't feel like it themselves.
So so insignificant compared to the atrocities that take place in Ukraine and other parts of the world due to expansionist and revisionist governments.
I mean look at Syria, it is being invaded again and kids are dying. Maybe erase Turkey from the Road to the Black Sea DLC as well..
I wouldn't have any problems with the DLC release either. But, the problem is not SCS but the community and that's why they decided to make this decision. Unfortunately, few poeple understand the real story and make the separation of events from what is a game and what is real life. Most would judge and say that SCS is supporting Russia, even though they only released the DLC and didn't mention or praise Russia anymore.
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#16670 Post by Madkine » 28 May 2022 03:00

Marcello Julio wrote: 28 May 2022 02:11 I wouldn't have any problems with the DLC release either. But, the problem is not SCS but the community
It's not the community that's the reason, it's the wider world. Even if most of the community were Ok with it, part of what SCS are avoiding is being front page news for releasing a Russian DLC during the war.
ie it's the reaction of non customers that's as important as the reaction of actual customers.

A seriously negative reaction from non customers might be enough to jeopardise their relationships with the truck manufacturers. And then the community would be seriously upset if for example that caused there to be no new trucks in either game for 3 years or more.
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