Wyoming Discussion Thread

[saur44l]

Well if one looks at steam reviews he or she will found out that they are more than 90% positive,so if the numbers are right then people working at SCS are clearly doing what is asked from them,deliver a product that will be satisfactory for the "majority" of the fans for that game.I can understand if someone doesn't like something,after all we are all humans,we have different preferences and all that....but to constantly come here,24/7 even and state how this is not the game that you enjoy playing,that I can't.There has to be a time when one has to say,this is not for me,I am not gonna waste my time and my money here and move on.

[flight50]

If you don't want to make that road in the map editor, then try making a concept map to show how the space could be better managed.

From what I gather, people are judging the entire state just by I-80, which, IRL, follows an important historic corridor and has several relatively large towns. That corridor wouldn't feel right if, say, Evanston and Rawlins were left out, even if it meant longer stretches of open, empty scenery. I wonder if people are also stuck in memetic views of the state, about how it's so empty that it probably doesn't exist. Wyoming may have a small population and only two escalators, but this isn't the 1830s; don't be shocked to discover that the state has actual cities and modern infrastructure. The issue with cities feeling too close together isn't unique to Wyoming, it has to do with the map scale, and therefore appears all over the map, and is just something we have to accept. Compared to other states in the game, Wyoming actually does feel vast, and is just as high-quality as Colorado.

Lmao. I was just about to say the exact same thing. Funny how people hang up and criticize I-80. Get off of it and the dlc is beautifully done. Everything not on I-80 is fairly remote. You buy the dlc to play it all, not just drive I-80. I get the cities are a tad oversized. Nothing we can do about that. Enjoy the state for what it does bring to the table because I can guarantee if any of those cities on I-80 where missing, people would be complaining. There will always be something to complain about. When Texas and Montana release, the focus will shift there to complain about something. Wyoming gets the complaints because its the latest and greatest. Me personally, I think Wyoming is the best of the crop. Colorado nearly a tie for me with Wyoming but that's me. Both are great dlc's. The biggest issue is Rawlins to Laramie but it is what it is. Cody is also coming and its remote. So get off I-80 and enjoy the entire dlc. There is nothing urban about roads away from I-80 in Wyoming.

Spot on with the population comment and scale. The low population just means less people per square mile crammed into one place. It does not mean Wyoming should be empty or feel like a ghost town. I feel open with Wyoming. Its not urban at all to me. Its urban where is should be though. The perception of Wyoming is totally off. If has cities just like Nevada that is also pretty isolated. If it wasn't for Vegas and Reno, Nevada would be just like Wyoming. So people really need to get away from thinking low population = empty and think industry and that cities do actually exist. They just have lower amounts of people in each city. Wyoming is nicely done imho. Again, I agree the I-80 cities (outside of Cheyenne) are a bit oversized but hey, we have nice depots spread thru out. For a team of newbies...this was a huge plus to make Wyoming what it is.

[kostraelpayaso]

I don't know, I think that city design has vastly improved over the time, a problem with older cities is that they felt too small, more akin to an european town than an american city where suburban sprawl tends to be prevalent. Scale will always be a headache in terms of what gets prioritized, going for the vastness and isolation of the countryside will probably come with smaller settlements and the exclusion of some cities and vice versa, but I feel like it's hard to get an equilibrium. Whatever they choose to do will always find detractors.

[oldmanclippy]

I don't think there was much that could have been done in terms of making I-80 feel more empty except for making Rawlins less wide west-east, which I think should have been done. Make it too curvy, and it's unrealistic. Remove a city, get complaints. I-80 is a bit of a letdown, but I think the main culprit is yet again 1:20 scale, not the Wyoming team themselves for the most part. I enjoy I-80 a lot in Wyoming. But I-25, that's fantastic in Wyoming. A nice way to finish off that interstate which is probably the best in the game overall IMO.

The Prism3D engine has stengths and weaknesses like any other engine. It does best when distant land is supposed to be close, and does poorly trying to emulate distant land being, well, distant. Jackson Hole is fantastic, partly because the valley is pretty narrow IRL anyways. Anywhere where there are mountains far in the distance though is much harder for mappers to pull off convincingly at 1:20 scale. A lot of times SCS is able to pull off a decent illusion of vastness in areas like these, but it's not always possible. I will agree with others that New Mexico probably does the best job in terms of tricking the player into thinking the game world is more vast. Eastern Colorado also does a very good job with that. So I'm not super worried about the Great Plains states. Those will be more similar to New Mexico and Eastern Colorado, whereas Wyoming is kind of like a transition zone between the dramatic Rockies and the sweeping Great Plains.

For what it's worth, I think Wyoming will probably become my favorite DLC once US-14 and Cody are in. Some parts are a bit disappointing, like Rawlins taking up so much darn space, [Dubois] to Moran not being realistic AND being under permanent construction presumably based on an outdated Google Street View image to boot (Togwotee Pass is just missing), and Boysen Reservoir. But other places like Cheyenne, Jackson Hole / Jackson, Casper, WY-59, WY-450, Devils Tower, I-90, I-25, US-191 south of I-80, etc, are some of the best parts of the game. And when you consider that it was made in 9 months by a team of newbies, it's impressive. What's holding it back is similar to what's held back all ATS DLCs since Oregon, and that's not enough new companies and industries. Montana looks like it's finally addressing that, and Texas better as well otherwise we're gonna have serious problems. But overall, Wyoming is really good IMO. I've only driven from Newcastle to Casper to Jackson IRL, and I think most of what I've seen IRL was replicated well in the DLC, except for Togwotee Pass and Boysen Reservoir. And there being 2 Ursa Majors at Black Thunder Coal Mine (did that ever get fixed?).

I do feel like there's a very real and pervasive conflict of desires. On one hand, some people would prefer accurate vibes over density. Some people want as many cities and roads as possible. I am personally shifting more from the latter camp to the former one. I would rather have a really accurate recreation of a lesser number of roads and cities, vs a less accurate recreation of a higher number of roads and cities. But I also value having each state feel distinct from one another, and part of that is having some states be more or less road-dense and more or less city-dense than others. So Oklahoma should be jam packed like Washington was both in terms of roads and cities. Kansas should be jam packed with roads but not cities. Nebraska shouldn't be jam packed with either. And so on and so on. If the entire country gets mapped at the same density, that would get old quick. The best way to add value to the map is to make each part of it feel unique. There are lots of tools and strategies at SCS' disposal to accomplish that. So far, I think they've done a pretty decent job. New Mexico has a more yellowy vibe compared to Arizona's red and Utah's orange. Oregon's forests feel very different from California's or Washingtons. Washington forests feel like Washington's, and the Olympic Peninsula feels different from the Cascades. Utah has its wonderful distinctive rock formations and unique architecture. Idaho has the panhandle which has lots of log-cabin architecture, and the southern part which is an arid agricultural belt, just like IRL, and the mountains of central Idaho are appropriately wild. Colorado has the dramatic arid yet forested mountain areas and the vast horizons of the great plains in the east. Wyoming has those distinctive snow barriers that line the roads and keep snow drifts at bay, the Teton Mountains are unlike any other range in the game, just as they are IRL, and the way that peoples' ranches and homes exist in relation to the main roads is very accurate and unique from my experience. So far, I think SCS has accomplished the goal of "drop me in any part of the game world and let me guess correctly which state I am in". The best way to continue to get this right, is to just strive for realism and an accurate vibe in all facets of a DLC's design. Then you don't even have to try to make the states distinct, since IRL the states are different from one another, so if you emulate real life the uniqueness will come naturally. That means going all in on architecture, environments, signage, culture, industries, etc. It's what everyone advocates for, and it all ties into realism and diversity between states.

[Kistk3]

I have played Wyoming a lot recently and I have to say, it is not one of my favorite DLCs. Colorado is still my favorite. Can anyone explain why Wyoming feels so....meh in this game? I see Wyoming IRL (and in flghtsim) and it looks amazing, incredible vast distances and vistas and mountain ranges. But then Wyoming in game is like 1 minute and I hit the next city. Visually it looks worse than Colorado somehow. I wonder if its just the scale that made it feel unimpressive, perhaps it could have been better at 1:10 scale.

What do you guys think of Wyoming compared to other DLCs?

Idaho and Colorado are the best IMO, and about the scale, yes 1:10 should be enough, and plety of more stuffs would be included. The 1:1 only swits MSFS, for a truck sim would be too much

[harishw8r]

oldmanclippy: That was very well put. They really try to get the vibes of each state at least from a surface level, and that works for them every time. Also they are pushing the bar of realism every time, both with map DLCs and trucks. I see ICCs are the major weak point, and I see they are addressing that issue as well. With so many things missing in the game, I feel they do find a good balance in what features to bring in the game(s).

Also, 1:10 scale is nuts. 1:20 is just fine. IMO Scale shouldn’t even be a matter of discussion, given how large the map is expected to grow with time.

[Travismods]

The US would be much better represented at 1:10 though. Now we are ready for people to tell us how they would quit playing if it was 1:10 lol. Overall I think the map would have been better if there was space between cities.

[Viper28]

Well if one looks at steam reviews he or she will found out that they are more than 90% positive,so if the numbers are right then people working at SCS are clearly doing what is asked from them,deliver a product that will be satisfactory for the "majority" of the fans for that game.I can understand if someone doesn't like something,after all we are all humans,we have different preferences and all that....but to constantly come here,24/7 even and state how this is not the game that you enjoy playing,that I can't.There has to be a time when one has to say,this is not for me,I am not gonna waste my time and my money here and move on.

Steam Reviews!? Have you read a lot of them? Let's not even go down that rabbit hole. Aside from that, sadly I agree, since it seems many folks in this community are satisfied with not really asking much of SCS from this game; and receiving such in return, you're right, at some point, move on.

[saur44l]

If things were so bleak like you are making them,then SCS would have stooped making dlc's long time ago,if you are not satisfied with something why would you buy the damn thing,it is like you keep on hitting the wall with you head and saying there should be a door there.Now is your chance to be heard,when Montana or Texas are released,don'y buy them,it is simple like that.

[angrybirdseller]

Wyoming pretty good and I-80 pretty busy in Wyoming actually its 85% trucks on it. SCS picked right balance on I-80 as it not eye candy like I-70 in Colorado.

I-80 where vast majority of Wyoming settlements and towns are located parallel transcontinent railroad.