Engine upgrade and DX12 coming to ETS2 and ATS!

[Tomsun]

Yep also what I've read
DX12 offers low level acces to core api to benefit from the cpus multicore achitecture

So if this is true in that way that Vulkan doesn't benefit of cpu multicore architecture, it's a fair point to keep on the DX12-track, if Vulkan benefits in similar way of the multicore architecture, my question would be why supporting two technologies, and in terms of supporting multiplatform it would be Vulkan.
I assume if not yet Vulkan would support benefit of multicore architecture in the future.

[xXCARL1992Xx]

they are both the same, Microsoft is one of the companies that also makes decision in wich way Vulkan goes and it goes basically almost the same way as DX12 only that it is supported on Windows AND Linux instead of Windows only

and going Vulkan only would still be a bad option for Multi platform, the moment SCS goes Console Vulkan is moot and only usable for the Switch, they need DX12 anyway for Xbox and the PS its own Frankenstein API, macOS can be done via MoltenVK because i doubt SCS would go the way to implement a 4th API just for mac users to the 3 that are already needed to run on PC (Windows and Linux) and Consoles (Xbox, Switch and PlayStation)

mobile we dont even need to talk, they are worse in regards to input where the Deck and Switch at least have some physical buttons

[Berniyh]

And a great part of the users of Win7 will be able to switch to win 10 without any problem, that probably only half of the win 7 users have a REAL ISSUE, the others just don't want to migrate, THAT'S O.K. but that can't be the problem of the complete users, just of them able but not willing to migrate.

I'm one of these users and I want to migrate, but not to Windows 10, but instead to Linux.
Unfortunately, the opengl version is horrible, really horrible. So it's not an option.
Yeah, you can run it via proton, but it still shows that an alternative to DX12 (namely Vulkan) would greatly appreciated.
Also linuxtrack + wine doesn't work that well for me, while native programs work fine. (linuxtrack is the linux-based alternative to TrackIR)

I only use Windows 7 for three games now and two of these are ATS and ETS2. The other one is Assetto Corsa, which I haven't been able to run on Linux so far.
Everything else – for me – runs on Linux just fine or isn't that interesting.

[Tomsun]

So i understand right, you are running Win7 only for that three games as your gaming rig, everything else runs on linux. So i understand the attempt to run EVERYTHING under linux, why not its also an idea for me. But as the linux support is not sufficient so far (poor open GL), what is the problem so far to run these 3 Games in an WIN 10/ WIN 11 environment, as long as a sufficient Linux support is there. The only reason i see is using hardware not compatible with WIN 10, your productive environment is Linux anyhow. If i understand you don't like the use of Win7 either. If you have programs that don't exist or don't run well under a certain OS you can't use them under this OS, and you have to use them under the OS they work fine, one way is to use a multiboot system, the other is to use seperate Hardware, or you use a VM solution (i didn't manged it so far, not enough time to do the deep-dive, but as i understood it should work with e.g. Proxmox)

[Some newbie driver]

Probably he don't want to touch Win 8 or higher without a stick, something I can understand

[Tomsun]

So this his decision but not a reason preventing others from having the benefit from DX12, he then just can wait for VULKAN (what will show up hopefullyy at the same time.

I can understand his wish to run everything in a certain quality under linux. But the evil WIN-world seems to be no problem so far. i can understand avoiding windows for ethical reasons, i can understand avoiding newer windows than XP or WIn7, but thats a personal problem. I can understand having hardware not capable of running win 10 or win 11, but with that hardware you won't have satisfaction in the newer parts of the map. We had the same discussion when leaving DX9. From the business point of view it makes no sense to take care of a relative small group, not having capable enough hardware due to money reasons, because this group will not make turn-around, on the other hand you ran into risk that big groups are leaving (usually makinging the turn around) due to not evolving the game. Perhaps i makes sense to keep a not more maintained spin-off at status DX11 available to the 2nd world or 3rd world groups, when DX12 is official. This means of course not GPL, the rights should remain at SCS.

But my assumption is that even in 2nd world or 3rd world the majority runs Hardware newer than ivybridge, what should perfectly work (of course not in 4k,144 HZ, Highest details) in 768p, 50-60 FPS Low details. I don't think we are talking in the vast majority of 8086, Hercules graphics based systems. And these guys don't have the problem with DX12, they have the problem with more and more complex scenes consuming lots of cpu and gpu power.

[Berniyh]

The only reason i see is using hardware not compatible with WIN 10, your productive environment is Linux anyhow. If i understand you don't like the use of Win7 either.

The hardware is compatible with Windows 10, that would not be a problem.

There are couple of reasons why I refuse to run Windows 10 or 11. Aside from the fact that I think the UI is pretty stupid (I have to use it at work), the main reason is that with Windows 10 they increased the amount of data they collect from users and at least with the non-enterprise version, you only have a limited access to settings to turn that off.
The same applies to system updates. I totally agree that these are necessary, but I want to have the decider on when they are to be done.
e.g. if I'm doing a race in AC, I cannot have the OS interfere with that. Now, I believe there are some settings where you can sort of control this behavior, but I've seen it so often in livestreams etc. where people are interrupted by Windows. So again, no-go.
I could go on with that list, but I don't really want to derail this thread any further.

Now at least the first point also holds – to lesser degree – for Windows 7, which is also one of the reasons why I want to get rid of that as well as soon as possible.
So you may of course argue that it's basically the same situation as when I installed Windows 7. However, then you're missing part of the picture.
Only with Valve's release of Proton it became really realistic to run a gaming rig solely on Linux. I'm not quite there, but I hope I can put Windows 7 to rest next year.
If ETS2/ATS supports Vulkan until then, that'd be great. We'll see.

one way is to use a multiboot system, the other is to use seperate Hardware, or you use a VM solution (i didn't manged it so far, not enough time to do the deep-dive, but as i understood it should work with e.g. Proxmox)

Actually I've separated the hardware for over 10 years now. My main desktop system has been solely running Linux for a long time (since 2010 iirc).
Also has the advantage that you can use something cheaper and more efficient as a desktop system, since it doesn't have to be able to run performance-demanding games.
The gaming PC nowadays is almost only running games, it's basically a PC-based console. (Can't switch to consoles though for a number of reasons.)

In the end, I get your point and actually I'm not opposing a DX12 part of the engine, at least not if there is also a Vulkan part, which – at least from my point of view – is more important.
And if both co-exist, it would be important that they are both maintained to a good standard, unlike the current situation, where the OpenGL part relevant for the Linux port is basically rotting while there is major development on the DX11 part.
(Something I totally understand, but it still sucks.)
Although as a final thought, please let me emphasize that I think it's really great that there is a Linux port of ETS2/ATS at all. I really would like to thank the devs for that.

[Tomsun]

The old problem of showering without getting wet.
We are in the lucky situation, that ETS2 and ATS are supported in a linux version, and mostlikely SCS will keep going on, and not unlikely with a Vulkan support. If this is available i will definitely will give it a try.
Usually you can prohibit/postpone the updates in Win 10 for a week or so, without being interrupted during a race-session.
The "real" problem is the attitude of phoning home of MS-Products, BUT as you say your windows PC is your "XBOX" only, whats the "REAL" Problem with it, despite the fact its not necessary. What data for phoning home are your dedicated gaming system causing a problem. All your "REAL Life" stuff is not only in another Boot-environment, but on a completely different Hardware-environment.

[Berniyh]

We are in the lucky situation, that ETS2 and ATS are supported in a linux version, and mostlikely SCS will keep going on, and not unlikely with a Vulkan support.

Agreed and yes, I hope there will be Vulkan support.
If it'd help, I would even be willing to pay for it (or donate). But unfortunately, I guess most people wouldn't.

BUT as you say your windows PC is your "XBOX" only, whats the "REAL" Problem with it, despite the fact its not necessary. What data for phoning home are your dedicated gaming system causing a problem.

Yes, fair point, but if you're installing in, then you're kind of supporting (or at least tolerating) this behavior.
Microsoft has ended support for Win 7 and this means I am ending my support for Windows as well.

[Some newbie driver]

The "real" problem is the attitude of phoning home of MS-Products, BUT as you say your windows PC is your "XBOX" only, whats the "REAL" Problem with it, despite the fact its not necessary. What data for phoning home are your dedicated gaming system causing a problem. All your "REAL Life" stuff is not only in another Boot-environment, but on a completely different Hardware-environment.

Your gaming data is ALSO your "real life" data. All what you do in your life is real life data and can be used to feed the big data analysis those companies do for their grey-to-very-shady objectives.

That trend to say "it's not important data" is based on the very low knowledge the average person has about those practices and about the kind of conclusions that can be pulled out from that "innocent harmless and not relevant data" (in the eyes of regular people). That ignorance plays in favor of those companies to keep doing those shady practices. As users we can decide we are OK or not OK with sharing that info in return of whatever the company provides us; but we should never thing "that's not important data so it doesn't matter". We should eradicate that mindset because it's socially dangerous.

Just a fast guessing (so, hypothetical although possible) to illustrate what I mean. At the very least, that info sent from a "gaming machine" could tell Microsoft how much free time you spent on a chair in front of a computer. That kind of sedentary behavior is well known to cause some health issues. That info from M$ crossed with some other info that could come from other places and could be related to individuals is valuable to medical insurance companies. Those could had good estimations of how those individuals will be prone to certain diseases that will cause them lot of healthcare expenses; so it's a valuable info for those companies in order to decide what they charge for a medial insurance or even if they reject a client. After all, they want no patients, they want profitable customers.

And that last part is not fiction. Those kind of analysis on big data for those medical purposes have been doing for at least one decade. The only hypothetical part on my guess is if the data M$ sells (because they sell it, that's granted) is used by that kind of companies on my example.

So, as I said earlier; I can understand why some people don't wanna touch newer Windows versions not even with a stick.

Regards