The Dakotas (North and South) Discussion Thread

[VTXcnME]

whether SCS chooses to combine the states into one DLC or not, I really just hope the quality is there.

Some of the road trip icons like Wall Drug/Mitchell Corn Palace. They really need to make the DLC.

So together or separate, either way: Quality has to maintain.

[55sixxx]

Another reason why they should be bundled up is what you just mentioned. Imagine if each state was made by separate teams and one team did a better job at details and accuracy than the other, it would feel weird. Being made together as one state by just one map team, would increase the chances of having the same quality and accuracy all over both states. At least in my eyes.

[oldmanclippy]

and New Salem, ND, has the World's Largest Holstein Cow, both visible from I-94.

Salem Sue! The view from the hill she is built on is pretty nice too.

[VTXcnME]

@55sixxx I figure each state would be like it is now, there's a certain level of consistency across the board. I'm not sure bundling them to one team would really change the quality to an extent you'd notice. I'm more hoping where the states are so devoid of mountains/major land features they focus on the odd things that make the states stand out, like the aforementioned tourist attractions.

[flight50]

ooking around the Mt. Rushmore area, I see another road for whoever did Going to the Sun: the Iron Mountain Road, which has some crazy loops and nice views.

As long as SD-244 comes, I don't care what happens in that area. SD-244 is a must if we have all these other touristic roads.

As far a consistency and map teams, I actually have to agree with 55sixxx. There are 3 levels of mappers and there is an obvious difference from entry level to senior level. The mid level is the best of both worlds. The more people you have working a dlc, the less consistency actually. So whether 2 separate teams work it or one large team, there will be some inconsistencies no matter what. Not everyone is equal on a team. But with a larger team, the more experience can get the weaker person's back and help polish up bad areas.

Lets say North Dakota takes 9-10 people. Lets say South Dakota is the same at 9-10. So now we are at 18-20 people total for the the Dakota's as solo states. Well lets now take a different approach. What if both North Dakota and South Dakota are now bundled. We might not get 18-20 people. It might go 15-16 people while others knock out 2 other solo states. Most of the Dakotas is like Eastern Montana. They don't need a flood of people for that type of terrain. I'd honestly rather have 15-16 people than 18-20. If the other people are working 2 other states and the Dakotas is combined, that allows a bit more time without rushing it out because we know there are 2 other states in development. So the quality will still be there no matter what. That's the standard now since Idaho.

[VTXcnME]

@flight50

By that logic you're suggesting that any states the junior team works on will be inferior to the senior team. More importantly: Who's to say they don't spread the new guys out amongst the seasoned guys. I mean, there's nothing set in stone that team one has to remain team one forever right? Team 3 is team three, no questions asked... I also don't think just because they are new, the quality will be less. What I see more happening is the senior/experienced mappers will be faster than the junior guys. "This ain't my first rodeo" kind of magic that allows mappers to move more quickly over a given area to create. They'll get a state done in x number of months where the new guys might take x +y to get it done.

But I certainly don't think you're going to see a reduction in the quality of product that we as end users experience.

[55sixxx]

My initial point was not how experienced one team might be over the other... Point being that one may go the extra mile regarding accuracy and detailing just for the thrill of it while another team may think the DLC is done as soon as the basics get finished.

[flight50]

@VTXcnME That's not at all what I stated. I said there are 3 levels of mappers. Each of the 3 levels are split up on each team. Although Davidio's team is mostly newbies, they are not all newbies. No way Pavel puts an entire team of new people on one team. Going to the Sun road was done by a senior. Compare that to a lesser quality area of Montana and chances are its not a senior mapper. There are seasoned people mixed into each map team though. That is the only way new people learn is from a more experienced person. We don't get extra roads that use to train people. They get training while working with higher level people so its more like throw you in the fire now with basic training.

I also didn't say team 3 has less quality. We've seen what they have done with both Wyoming and Montana I think that did a knock out job. I've even said these numerous times in both those threads. What I said is that entry level will be less quality than the top level which is Senior. Seniors are seniors for a reason.

[VTXcnME]

This is why I hate the internet sometimes... posts lose inflection/tone of message.

Either way, glad that we're in agreement that newbie mappers will still produce the same quality product.

But I guess I'm confused why it was brought up at all, given we're all of the understanding that new mappers or veteran mappers, the quality and construction should be QA'd before it's released, and the standard of quality will be consistent.

[flight50]

Yeah misunderstanding. Newbie mapper doesn't automatically mean low quality. I was saying that a junior's quality basically doesn't compare to a Senior's quality level. A newbie mapper can be either junior level or map designer level. The don't automatically start at Senior if though they could show the potential. But I was responding to the below quote.

Another reason why they should be bundled up is what you just mentioned. Imagine if each state was made by separate teams and one team did a better job at details and accuracy than the other, it would feel weird. Being made together as one state by just one map team, would increase the chances of having the same quality and accuracy all over both states. At least in my eyes.

He didn't exactly say consistency but that's what he's getting at. I was co-signing with the knowledge of the 3 different map designer levels in which you took as I was talking about a new map team. I was referring to each individual person's skill level and not the skill level of the entire team. I can say though I'd love to get more from the Wyoming/Montana team. Not only did the sophomore mappers knock out another dlc withing 12 months, not only did they improve on their first one, but they have become a very reliable asset to the ATS map team. If they pulled off Montana with 10-11 people to start and then ended up with 15 people.....fast tracked Montana and still got it out within 12 months, imagine what they can do with a bundled Dakotas with 15 people from the start. The 2 fairly similar sized in square miles. The big differences.........no Western Montana so things will got a tad quicker. Now there would be more cities to worry about but even Montana had 15. So 16-20 cities between both Dakota's isn't too bad.

With that said, by the time Davido's team is ready for something like the Dakota's, that could be their 4th or even 5th dlc. That then puts them at a nicely experienced team. If SCS hire more, now they can train because they have the experience to do so.

So if Oklahoma, Kansas and Nebraska are next, what follows can be Missouri, Iowa and Illinois. Or the Dakota's and Minnesota. I really hope it would be Missouri, Iowa and Illinois though for 2024 if we get 3 next year. Reason being.......I-29. I really don't see how the Dakota's will work as nicely without I-29 starting in Kansas City first. Not only do we get Chicago, but now that opens the door for a lot of things ICC wise. More I-80, completed I-44, more I-70, start of I-55 and head South but then we have some more big name cities in the mix along. Along with Chicago we get Kansas City, St. Louis, Omaha, Des Moines. Get to Chicago and nowwww maybe we can get the 3 team going in 3 different directions. The North fills in first with only 5 to go if you include Michigan. The South picks up with Arkansas and Louisiana to add to Texas. Then heading East, maybe finish up the Great Lakes first before the push to the Northeast. Maybe new technology is ready for the Northeast by then, who know's.