Poland pre-research tips

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Ch_R0me
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Poland pre-research tips

#1 Post by Ch_R0me » 17 Aug 2022 16:33

So (since it's my first endeavour), a lot of things needs update:

-- National Road 6 (Droga Krajowa nr 6) is currently being upgraded from trunk road into expressway S6; notable segment is from Szczecin to Kołobrzeg (could be made into scenic town) [https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/53.7406/15.1666], then the segment from Bożepole Wielkie village to Gdynia is almost complete (lacks a part from junction Chwaszczyno to junction Wielki Kack, which at this moment is a part of National Road 20) [https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/54.5119/18.2723].

-- Highway A1 is complete (from Toruń up to the A1/A4 junction near Katowice as it is atm in game):

--- Junction Toruń Południe: https://www.google.pl/maps/@52.962801,1 ... 384!8i8192

--- A1/A2 junction near Stryków (which is near Łódź): https://www.google.pl/maps/@51.8919649, ... 384!8i8192

-- National Road 18 is being upgraded into Highway A18, which would be a good shortcut to Berlin from Wrocław (connects A4 highway in Krzyżowa with Olsza / Forst-Bademeuse border, from which it continues as a Autobahn A15 through Cottbus to the A13 (which should be known by everybody who found a closed way towards the Wrocław and Cottbus, that is). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A18_autostrada_(Poland)]

-- National Road 7 from Gdańsk to Warszawa is in pretty much 85% upgraded to the expressway S7; some segments are also done towards Slovakia [https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/112778}

-- From Expressway S7 there is going expressway S22 to the Kaliningrad, Russia [https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=10/54.2548/19.7260]

Sorry for giving so low in information, yet like I said - I just wanted to start the discussion here, because I'm inexperienced in these things.
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Re: Poland pre-research tips

#2 Post by Aziz » 02 Nov 2022 00:07

Here's an updated, corrected map of roads that have changed over the years. I also allowed myself to add two or three additions I feel are sensible (and I believe I have good explanation)
https://i.imgur.com/dDp7Duk.jpg

Starting from the northwest:
There's a large port, or actually few of them, in Szczecin, accessible pretty much straight from the road going from A6/10 intersection. A6 is the motorway through which you cross the German border (from Autobahn 11) https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4030407 ... 981,13.43z

Moving on, the Tricity. There's of course a ferry port to Karlskrona not far from DK6 in Gdynia (which should be properly named), but also a huge cargo terminal and a whole industrial disctrict just west from the port. https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5430594 ... a=!3m1!1e3
Gdańsk has a shipyard and a powerplant just across the bridge (which has 30t weight limit btw) https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3753424 ... a=!3m1!1e3
Vehicles above 24 tons have to go this way from the area to get out of the city: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.3775 ... m2!4m1!3e0 and drivers should be able to see the stadium on the way https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3879762 ... 312!8i6656
There's also a refinery just off the DK89 https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3467347 ... a=!3m1!1e3
And a bunch of chemical industries closer to the city, including phosphor plant https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3788204 ... a=!3m1!1e3

I added a S61 in the east, simply because there's no point in going to and through Białystok from Warsaw if you're going for the border with Lithuania. Also it closes the gap and adds a possibility of adding one or two scenic towns just near it.
Next post, further south.
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Re: Poland pre-research tips

#3 Post by Aziz » 07 Nov 2022 22:15

Bydgoszcz-Toruń

They're an important and worth addition, and could be treated as one general area, like many in the newer parts of the map.
In Bydgoszcz there's a worldwide company https://www.unilever.com/ accessible through S10 ring road and DK80 https://www.google.com/maps/dir/53.1497 ... m2!4m1!3e0
Road 223 has a 10t limit for transit through the city.
Along the DK80 there's pretty much what the city is known for, PESA, a rail transport manufacturer, trains, trams etc https://www.google.com/maps/place/PESA+ ... d17.991734
Also, large cable manufacturer just to the east https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tele- ... 18.0746813 Trouble is, it's impossible to turn into the company from the road to the east there, the other possible way is through DK5: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/53.1342 ... m2!3e0!5i1
And finally, a big industrial area is in the southeast: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.0880228 ... a=!3m1!1e3

Toruń is known for its gingerbread cookies, so there it is: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Szosa ... 18.6434297 Now the entrance is only from DK80, which incidentally is also the only road to/from Bydgoszcz that doesn't have mass limits (the way across the river on DK15 is 18t) so the whole DK10 would have to be scrapped in favor of DK80, as there is no way to turn left from the factory. But there is a big cereal factory on the other side of the road that does have both turns, and there's easy access from DK10 https://www.google.com/maps/dir/52.9745 ... m2!4m1!3e0
And there's hundreds of industries, small and big in the north of the city https://www.google.com/maps/@53.0454499 ... a=!3m1!1e3 all accessible by DK80 leading to A1.
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Re: Poland pre-research tips

#4 Post by AntonioMart » 08 Nov 2022 17:47

I think polish Solaris Urbino city buses should be added in AI, old or new model. In addition, they can be used not only in Poland, but also in other European cities, because they are common there:

[ external image ]

[ external image ]
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Re: Poland pre-research tips

#5 Post by Ch_R0me » 08 Nov 2022 21:24

Let's see...
Aziz wrote: 02 Nov 2022 00:07 There's a large port, or actually few of them, in Szczecin, accessible pretty much straight from the road going from A6/10 intersection. A6 is the motorway through which you cross the German border (from Autobahn 11) https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4030407 ... 981,13.43z
I surely agree to rework A6/S3/DK10 to be a true bypass.
Aziz wrote: 02 Nov 2022 00:07 Moving on, the Tricity. There's of course a ferry port to Karlskrona not far from DK6 in Gdynia (which should be properly named), but also a huge cargo terminal and a whole industrial disctrict just west from the port. https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5430594 ... a=!3m1!1e3
Gdańsk has a shipyard and a powerplant just across the bridge (which has 30t weight limit btw) https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3753424 ... a=!3m1!1e3
Vehicles above 24 tons have to go this way from the area to get out of the city: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.3775 ... m2!4m1!3e0 and drivers should be able to see the stadium on the way https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3879762 ... 312!8i6656
There's also a refinery just off the DK89 https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3467347 ... a=!3m1!1e3
And a bunch of chemical industries closer to the city, including phosphor plant https://www.google.com/maps/@54.3788204 ... a=!3m1!1e3
In terms of TriCity I would say - skip Sopot (treat it as scenery town), and just distribute the traffic and companies between Gdynia and Gdańsk (in similiar manner like in Bordeaux in France. Put the NsOil in Gdańsk where real life Lotos Refinery is; majority of companies around DK89; rest within Gdynia in it's port and Hutnicza street (needs to go by Kwiatkowskiego street; S6 up to the DK6 should be locked out; exits to road DW468 and other streets; along with Kwiatkowskiego Street as well, minus the access to the ferry to the Karlskrona).
Aziz wrote: 02 Nov 2022 00:07 I added a S61 in the east, simply because there's no point in going to and through Białystok from Warsaw if you're going for the border with Lithuania. Also it closes the gap and adds a possibility of adding one or two scenic towns just near it.
I Also agree to add it.
Aziz wrote: 07 Nov 2022 22:15 Bydgoszcz-Toruń

They're an important and worth addition, and could be treated as one general area, like many in the newer parts of the map.
In Bydgoszcz there's a worldwide company https://www.unilever.com/ accessible through S10 ring road and DK80 https://www.google.com/maps/dir/53.1497 ... m2!4m1!3e0
Road 223 has a 10t limit for transit through the city.
Along the DK80 there's pretty much what the city is known for, PESA, a rail transport manufacturer, trains, trams etc https://www.google.com/maps/place/PESA+ ... d17.991734
Also, large cable manufacturer just to the east https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tele- ... 18.0746813 Trouble is, it's impossible to turn into the company from the road to the east there, the other possible way is through DK5: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/53.1342 ... m2!3e0!5i1
And finally, a big industrial area is in the southeast: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.0880228 ... a=!3m1!1e3

Toruń is known for its gingerbread cookies, so there it is: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Szosa ... 18.6434297 Now the entrance is only from DK80, which incidentally is also the only road to/from Bydgoszcz that doesn't have mass limits (the way across the river on DK15 is 18t) so the whole DK10 would have to be scrapped in favor of DK80, as there is no way to turn left from the factory. But there is a big cereal factory on the other side of the road that does have both turns, and there's easy access from DK10 https://www.google.com/maps/dir/52.9745 ... m2!4m1!3e0
And there's hundreds of industries, small and big in the north of the city https://www.google.com/maps/@53.0454499 ... a=!3m1!1e3 all accessible by DK80 leading to A1.
I would say - same treatment like with TriCity; Bydgoszcz would be added as a accessible town since Toruń would be too close, if we take distances shortened by the map scale.

For the Bydgoszcz... I think the S5/S10 ring, along with DK5 connection through city would be a good starting point to choose between DK80 and DK10. I don't really think that SCS would decide to add both routes from Bydgoszcz and Toruń, though.

Toruń would be a tad bigger problem, since the famous gingerbread company, Kopernik S.A., is located almost in the middle of the city (like with Nestle, which is the one producing cereals), while majority of industries are located on DK91, south from the city center (Rudak district), and some on northern districts (while heading towards Gdańsk). Rudak is easy to reach from DK10, yet it would be a mess to get back to the A1 highway, unless connection from DK80 and DK91 would be implemented, east of the town. I really wonder, how SCS would appoach this...
AntonioMart wrote: 08 Nov 2022 17:47 I think polish Solaris Urbino city buses should be added in AI, old or new model. In addition, they can be used not only in Poland, but also in other European cities, because they are common there:
I would rather see an "inspired" vehicle, since SCS would definitely need to license the Urbino (and yes, I've been driving that bus in ETS2) :mrgreen:
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Re: Poland pre-research tips

#6 Post by Aziz » 08 Nov 2022 23:37

Ch_R0me wrote: 08 Nov 2022 21:24 In terms of TriCity I would say - skip Sopot (treat it as scenery town), and just distribute the traffic and companies between Gdynia and Gdańsk (in similiar manner like in Bordeaux in France. Put the NsOil in Gdańsk where real life Lotos Refinery is; majority of companies around DK89; rest within Gdynia in it's port and Hutnicza street (needs to go by Kwiatkowskiego street; S6 up to the DK6 should be locked out; exits to road DW468 and other streets; along with Kwiatkowskiego Street as well, minus the access to the ferry to the Karlskrona).
You wouldn't see Sopot from the S6 anyway, so may as well skip that entirely. Now, unless the S6 intersection is faked, there's no way to turn right into Szczecin direction from Kwiatkowskiego other than through 468, which is available for trucks. However, the same road through Sopot is limited to 24t, and there appears to be even more limits in Gdańsk itself... S6->S7->DK89 looks like the best option. In game it would be few minutes of driving anyway with the scale applied.
Ch_R0me wrote: 08 Nov 2022 21:24 I would say - same treatment like with TriCity; Bydgoszcz would be added as a accessible town since Toruń would be too close, if we take distances shortened by the map scale.

For the Bydgoszcz... I think the S5/S10 ring, along with DK5 connection through city would be a good starting point to choose between DK80 and DK10. I don't really think that SCS would decide to add both routes from Bydgoszcz and Toruń, though.

Toruń would be a tad bigger problem, since the famous gingerbread company, Kopernik S.A., is located almost in the middle of the city (like with Nestle, which is the one producing cereals), while majority of industries are located on DK91, south from the city center (Rudak district), and some on northern districts (while heading towards Gdańsk). Rudak is easy to reach from DK10, yet it would be a mess to get back to the A1 highway, unless connection from DK80 and DK91 would be implemented, east of the town. I really wonder, how SCS would appoach this...
Look at Helsinki, look at Hanover. Companies in these are very spread out, sometimes even outside IRL city bounds. Same thing should be done here I think. Toruń could be even marked with smaller font, like many towns in other parts of the map. Plus I bet that Ruhr area rework, whenever it happens, should prove that distances between cities are not a problem (and I'm going to address that once I get to the south part of the country). DK80 between cities is a bit problematic because it goes through literal city center of Toruń. If Rudak becomes accessible, even with Nestle (which is, quite literally, just near the 15/91 intersection, so I'd give it a pass) here's what I think the roads in Toruń could look like: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/52.9560 ... 5c!1m0!3e0 and maybe, if it isn't too dense, access to Rudak through 15/Andersa could be also there.
That way, the whole road network would look like that: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/52.9560 ... 52!1m0!3e0
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Re: Poland pre-research tips

#7 Post by Ch_R0me » 09 Nov 2022 16:43

Aziz wrote: 08 Nov 2022 23:37 You wouldn't see Sopot from the S6 anyway, so may as well skip that entirely. Now, unless the S6 intersection is faked, there's no way to turn right into Szczecin direction from Kwiatkowskiego other than through 468, which is available for trucks. However, the same road through Sopot is limited to 24t, and there appears to be even more limits in Gdańsk itself... S6->S7->DK89 looks like the best option. In game it would be few minutes of driving anyway with the scale applied.
Yes... I think that building the route around S6 up to DK89 would be indeed the best option, especially that on the junction Gdynia Wielki Kack there would be a new S6 segment. Like I said, SCS (somewhat inaccurate) predicted about the expressway near TriCity on the route towards Szczecin:

[ external image ]

Source: Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad, GDDKiA (English: General Directorate for National Roads and Highways)

The red are marked the roads under construction and/or upgrade; green are marked for upgrade; black are ready expressways.
What I mean, that the segment connecting the projected bypass near existing one (leading through current DK20 and the village of Chwaszczyno, where S6 would go towards Szczecin to the Bożepole Wielkie village, where then the S6 would follow the existing DK6 route. The segment connecting those two villages is pretty much ready, yet it's delayed.

Of course, there is the continuation from Chwaszczyno up to the S6/S7 Gdańsk Południe junction (named overall from Gdynia Wielki Kack junction to Gdańsk Południe junction, as Obwodnica Metropolitalna Trójmiasta), but it would introduce the problem which S6 segment would be considered - the old one, existing already, or the conceptualized one, going through the town of Żukowo (from which DK7 begins to end in Chyżne on PL/SK border).
Aziz wrote: 08 Nov 2022 23:37 Look at Helsinki, look at Hanover. Companies in these are very spread out, sometimes even outside IRL city bounds. Same thing should be done here I think. Toruń could be even marked with smaller font, like many towns in other parts of the map. Plus I bet that Ruhr area rework, whenever it happens, should prove that distances between cities are not a problem (and I'm going to address that once I get to the south part of the country).
To be honest, I think that Gdynia could be marked in similiar fashion.
Aziz wrote: 08 Nov 2022 23:37 DK80 between cities is a bit problematic because it goes through literal city center of Toruń. If Rudak becomes accessible, even with Nestle (which is, quite literally, just near the 15/91 intersection, so I'd give it a pass) here's what I think the roads in Toruń could look like: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/52.9560 ... 5c!1m0!3e0 and maybe, if it isn't too dense, access to Rudak through 15/Andersa could be also there.
More likely (knowing that SCS will focus on the highways). I just forgot to tell that the junction Toruń Południe (southernmost A1 junction in Toruń) can be used to move towards Gdańsk.
Aziz wrote: 08 Nov 2022 23:37 That way, the whole road network would look like that: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/52.9560 ... 52!1m0!3e0
To be honest, it would look great, especially if SCS decides to use S5 route to connect A1 highway through Bydgoszcz with A2 highway near Poznań:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Nowe+Ma ... 85!1m0!3e0

Also - I think that toll booths would be finally be removed for E-Toll system, a GPS-based system using electronic vignettes. At least for the segments controlled by the state.
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Re: Poland pre-research tips

#8 Post by Aziz » 09 Nov 2022 19:33

Ch_R0me wrote: 09 Nov 2022 16:43
Yes... I think that building the route around S6 up to DK89 would be indeed the best option, especially that on the junction Gdynia Wielki Kack there would be a new S6 segment. Like I said, SCS (somewhat inaccurate) predicted about the expressway near TriCity on the route towards Szczecin:


The red are marked the roads under construction and/or upgrade; green are marked for upgrade; black are ready expressways.
What I mean, that the segment connecting the projected bypass near existing one (leading through current DK20 and the village of Chwaszczyno, where S6 would go towards Szczecin to the Bożepole Wielkie village, where then the S6 would follow the existing DK6 route. The segment connecting those two villages is pretty much ready, yet it's delayed.

Of course, there is the continuation from Chwaszczyno up to the S6/S7 Gdańsk Południe junction (named overall from Gdynia Wielki Kack junction to Gdańsk Południe junction, as Obwodnica Metropolitalna Trójmiasta), but it would introduce the problem which S6 segment would be considered - the old one, existing already, or the conceptualized one, going through the town of Żukowo (from which DK7 begins to end in Chyżne on PL/SK border).
Oh dear I just realized how horribly outdated google maps are. Not only satellite view but the normal in general. Meanwhile, all of that is already visible on OSM, including roads that are complete but closed, and even those in construction https://www.openstreetmap.org/?query=54 ... 58/18.4234
That gives us entirely new perspective. Because if there is, or soon will be, in fact, a way to bypass Gdynia's city parts, SCS will do it. So, the new S6, to DK20, to Gdynia port sounds reasonable, without dealing with 468/DK6. Then I think there's no reason to use longer <currently in construction> route, and just use the current S6. You're still going to end up at the S7 junction anyway.

So the entire route around Tricity would be: DK6 to Strzebielno -> S6 to Chwaszczyno -> DK20 towards Wielki Kack, from there old S6 towards Gdynia and Gdańsk. And since SCS likes to mix up some pieces (Helsinki comes to mind again, where ingame ring road is actually a mix of two IRL) the Chwaszczyno junction could be dropped entirely and that S6 bit would be connected to itself in Wielki Kack just like that.
Ch_R0me wrote: 09 Nov 2022 16:43 To be honest, it would look great, especially if SCS decides to use S5 route to connect A1 highway through Bydgoszcz with A2 highway near Poznań:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Nowe+Ma ... 85!1m0!3e0

Also - I think that toll booths would be finally be removed for E-Toll system, a GPS-based system using electronic vignettes. At least for the segments controlled by the state.
The DK5 (now of course S5) exists in the game, though it goes to Poznań, rather than towards A2.

As for the booths, I don't know how it works on the motorways aside of A4, but there should be option for both ticket system/payment in the booth and Etoll/Telepass/whatever
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Re: Poland pre-research tips

#9 Post by Ch_R0me » 09 Nov 2022 20:10

Aziz wrote: 09 Nov 2022 19:33 Oh dear I just realized how horribly outdated google maps are. Not only satellite view but the normal in general. Meanwhile, all of that is already visible on OSM, including roads that are complete but closed, and even those in construction https://www.openstreetmap.org/?query=54 ... 58/18.4234
That gives us entirely new perspective. Because if there is, or soon will be, in fact, a way to bypass Gdynia's city parts, SCS will do it. So, the new S6, to DK20, to Gdynia port sounds reasonable, without dealing with 468/DK6. Then I think there's no reason to use longer <currently in construction> route, and just use the current S6. You're still going to end up at the S7 junction anyway.
Yeah, It would be more sensible to limit the O.M.T. just to the junctions of Gdynia Wielki Kack and Chwaszczyno. Speaking of which...
Aziz wrote: 09 Nov 2022 19:33 So the entire route around Tricity would be: DK6 to Strzebielno -> S6 to Chwaszczyno -> DK20 towards Wielki Kack, from there old S6 towards Gdynia and Gdańsk. And since SCS likes to mix up some pieces (Helsinki comes to mind again, where ingame ring road is actually a mix of two IRL) the Chwaszczyno junction could be dropped entirely and that S6 bit would be connected to itself in Wielki Kack just like that.
I really hope that if SCS would do so that way, then better not to include a sharp 90-degree turn :lol:

By the way, you should notice that the DK6 in Bożepole Wielkie was already redesigned (railway crossing was razed and replaced with bridge, wide enough to accomodate an second rail line, along with some quite long quarter of the main street to accomodate the exit), to cleanly go into the S6 towards the Chwaszczyno, so Strzebielino junction would be unnessesary.

About my own town, which is on the route - so far the S6 is still on the design phase, so nothing is really to change, to be honest. :cry:
Aziz wrote: 09 Nov 2022 19:33 The DK5 (now of course S5) exists in the game, though it goes to Poznań, rather than towards A2.
Yes, the depicted fragment was degraded to DW194. I was lucky enough to go along that route on train :)
But I really hope that SCS would try to redesign the Poznań, along with it's routes, as well.
Aziz wrote: 09 Nov 2022 19:33 As for the booths, I don't know how it works on the motorways aside of A4, but there should be option for both ticket system/payment in the booth and Etoll/Telepass/whatever
I'm gonna be sincere with you - the highway system in Poland is a pure mess. Some segments are governed by the state, some others by other companies.

The best as I could think would be an mixed approach - booths as you said on segments controlled by the companies, while on state-controlled segments, hmm... A road gantry placed where the toll booths were before, with cameras and OBU/EBS reading device, which would work just like the Auto Payment Terminal. This is how I could see this.

Also, speaking west from my home town... I mean - Koszalin. I know that there is still an S6 segment under construction (due to unforseen problems caused by marshes) from Koszalin Wschód junction to Sianów Wschód junction, from which the road would go just as the current DK6 goes, like in the Bożepole Wielkie village.
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Re: Poland pre-research tips

#10 Post by Aziz » 09 Nov 2022 22:25

You posted before I finished my post but you mentioned Poznań so coincidentally...

There's few important roads around that somewhat already exist in the game. A2 to the south, S11 to the west, S5 to the east (in the game as DK5, coming from the incorrect place) and DK92 to the north (doesn't exist as such ingame). Even full DK92 could work as it's a road used for transit through the city. These are needed because there's a lot of companies along or close to these roads.
First, just off the S5, Jeronimo Martins https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4011052 ... a=!3m1!1e3 distribution center for country-wide chain store Biedronka, which generates a lot of income.
A huge cluster of companies including, but not limited to: Castorama, Inter Cars, DPD, Komputronik, DAF, Eurocash, just to name a few, on both sides of the A2 https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3517684 ... a=!3m1!1e3
Volkswagen, hard to miss https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3974917 ... a=!3m1!1e3
There's a MAN dealer on the far side of the S11, so that may be a stretch but it's not the furthest company from the city I've ever seen in this game. And there's Amazon warehouse on the other side of the road https://www.google.com/maps/place/MAN+T ... 16.7113954
Lisner, food manufacturer, just off the DK92 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Produ ... d16.897514 Signs say 10t limit, but that limit begins further than the company is, so no problem here.
Then we have a power plant and Bridgestone next to each other: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.4347568 ... a=!3m1!1e3
There's also IKEA and OBI right over here: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3795494 ... a=!3m1!1e3 with simple access by road 433 from the A2.

All in all, the routes through the city would look like that: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/52.4480 ... bc!1m0!3e0

A2, between western junction with S5 and eastern with S11 has three lanes each way.

Also, addition od DK11 Poznań - Silesia would be welcome, https://www.google.com/maps/dir/52.3434 ... 4b!1m0!3e0 it is a commonly used road between those two regions, not only by small vehicles but by trucks as well, as they avoid dealing with Wrocław and the A4. Plus it brings back the balance between motorways and minor roads.
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