Wyoming Discussion Thread

Optional Features
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Re: Wyoming Discussion Thread

#6081 Post by Optional Features » 25 Jun 2022 21:38

koolizz wrote: 25 Jun 2022 20:44 I have played Wyoming a lot recently and I have to say, it is not one of my favorite DLCs. Colorado is still my favorite. Can anyone explain why Wyoming feels so....meh in this game? I see Wyoming IRL and it looks amazing, incredible vast distances and vistas and mountain ranges. But then Wyoming in game is like 1 minute and I hit the next city. Visually it looks worse than Colorado somehow. I wonder if its just the scale that made it feel unimpressive, perhaps it could have been better at 1:10 scale.

What do you guys think of Wyoming compared to other DLCs?
Colorado is by far the best state I would say. New Mexico might be second best.

Wyoming feels like an urbanized, unrealistic view of a place the mapping team clearly didn't research enough.
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Re: Wyoming Discussion Thread

#6082 Post by Trakaplex » 25 Jun 2022 21:47

seriousmods wrote: 25 Jun 2022 21:38
koolizz wrote: 25 Jun 2022 20:44 I have played Wyoming a lot recently and I have to say, it is not one of my favorite DLCs. Colorado is still my favorite. Can anyone explain why Wyoming feels so....meh in this game? I see Wyoming IRL and it looks amazing, incredible vast distances and vistas and mountain ranges. But then Wyoming in game is like 1 minute and I hit the next city. Visually it looks worse than Colorado somehow. I wonder if its just the scale that made it feel unimpressive, perhaps it could have been better at 1:10 scale.

What do you guys think of Wyoming compared to other DLCs?
Colorado is by far the best state I would say. New Mexico might be second best.

Wyoming feels like an urbanized, unrealistic view of a place the mapping team clearly didn't research enough.
True. Laramie is very close to Rawlins, when irl it's about 80 to 100 miles, same with Rock Springs and the rest of I-80. I guess the "density" doesn't make the map what we all see as Wyoming. But blame scale. They did a lot of detail around the towns. Now US-26 between Riverton and Moran isn't as congested.
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Re: Wyoming Discussion Thread

#6083 Post by Optional Features » 25 Jun 2022 22:22

@Trakaplex Yeah, I was looking online, and the distance across Wyoming is like 6 hours irl. It's like 25 minutes in game, and you never really feel away from it all.

Plus, notable areas like the highway to heaven seem to be minimized in such a way that they don't even stand out.

[ external image ]

I hope to travel through to see the state in person at some point, but I wish it felt more like what I expect in game.
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Re: Wyoming Discussion Thread

#6084 Post by Shiva » 25 Jun 2022 22:28

Please, do that part of the road ingame and see how much, or little, it would take.
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Re: Wyoming Discussion Thread

#6085 Post by Optional Features » 26 Jun 2022 00:32

Shiva wrote: 25 Jun 2022 22:28 Please, do that part of the road ingame and see how much, or little, it would take.
After attempting to work with the scs map editor, I have discovered it is not for me. I'd much rather use a system where I could just import sat data and then add details after the fact.
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Re: Wyoming Discussion Thread

#6086 Post by rbsanford » 26 Jun 2022 01:12

If you don't want to make that road in the map editor, then try making a concept map to show how the space could be better managed.

From what I gather, people are judging the entire state just by I-80, which, IRL, follows an important historic corridor and has several relatively large towns. That corridor wouldn't feel right if, say, Evanston and Rawlins were left out, even if it meant longer stretches of open, empty scenery. I wonder if people are also stuck in memetic views of the state, about how it's so empty that it probably doesn't exist. Wyoming may have a small population and only two escalators, but this isn't the 1830s; don't be shocked to discover that the state has actual cities and modern infrastructure. The issue with cities feeling too close together isn't unique to Wyoming, it has to do with the map scale, and therefore appears all over the map, and is just something we have to accept. Compared to other states in the game, Wyoming actually does feel vast, and is just as high-quality as Colorado.
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Handy maps and diagrams.

Furthermore, I consider that I-80 across Nevada must be redone next.
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Re: Wyoming Discussion Thread

#6087 Post by Optional Features » 26 Jun 2022 01:20

rbsanford wrote: 26 Jun 2022 01:12 From what I gather, people are judging the entire state just by I-80, which, IRL, follows an important historic corridor and has several relatively large towns.
I-80 is one of the most important trucking corridors in the nation: it's importance to the game is incredible, especially as the map expands east.

[ external image ]

Source: https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/freigh ... /major.htm

Getting it right should have been a high priority, but SCS likes to pack in lots of decorative details which make the map pretty but often crowd things with filler. There should be a better balance.
I wonder if people are also stuck in memetic views of the state, about how it's so empty that it probably doesn't exist.
Wyoming is the least populated state in the nation: it should feel empty. Land is almost free to this day, and much of the state has little to no population. SCS's presentation of the state is far too urbanized.
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Re: Wyoming Discussion Thread

#6088 Post by harishw8r » 26 Jun 2022 03:33

seriousmods wrote: 26 Jun 2022 01:20 Getting it right should have been a high priority, but SCS likes to pack in lots of decorative details which make the map pretty but often crowd things with filler. There should be a better balance.
You wanna do this again? Let’s go!

Wyoming has 10 cities, half of which is along I-80. I-80 is fairly straight. This is as compared with I-70 in Colorado which has almost the same end-to-end distance but has less cities and way too twisty. Twisty roads can be easily manipulated compared to straight one and hence either a lot of content could be packed and/or the important ones can be shown in a much better scale. Just see how many things SCS managed to include in I-80:

Echo-Evanston ports of entry
Evanston
Exit to Alpine
Highway to heaven
Twin tunnels
Little America truck stop
Exit to US-191
Rock Springs
A little breathing room because Rawlins is far anyway
Rawlins
Sinclair+Little breathing room
Laramie
Lincoln Memorial
Cheyenne

It’s the same distance/area they managed to include these:
Long road-CO point of entry
Fruita
Grand Junction
Long road with some scenic views
Glenwood Springs
Glenwood Canyon-hanging dam
Exit to Alamosa
A sufficiently long uphill
Eisenhower-Johnson tunnel
Exit to I-76
Exit to I-25
Denver-Aurora
Some breathing room
Limon
Some breathing room
Burlington

They did not miss the key features of I-80 in Wyoming. I-70 did not have a lot of cities but did have noteworthy scenery that cannot be underrepresented, so they did justice to both the cases here. Mapping is not a ‘one approach fits all’ problem. Density of content matters.

That said, the rest of the state is vast; very vast. And to answer someone else’s question, I think Wyoming is the best DLC so far. Now that Cody will also be in, hopefully if Beartooth also makes into Montana, it’s a masterpiece.
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Re: Wyoming Discussion Thread

#6089 Post by Optional Features » 26 Jun 2022 03:51

Again, our priorities differ. You are impressed by how much can be squeezed into a small space, even if it doesn't feel right. I want maps that represent a real place well, regardless of whether they check all the scenery boxes.

If a place has big mountains irl, I want to see big mountains. If there are hours of nothing, I would like to see minutes of nothing.

There are basically no wide open spaces in the game because of the approach you highlight, and that is opposite of how much of America is. Every few feet there's another exit ramp or entrance, another scenic object, another thing to look at. And with the AI's herky-jerky driving, it's nearly impossible to just set the cruise and roll.

That's what I like about New Mexico. There are things to look at it, but it feels really big given the same scale.
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Re: Wyoming Discussion Thread

#6090 Post by Tristman » 26 Jun 2022 09:16

I have to agree with Werewooooolf, I think Wyoming is excellent.

I love New Mexico in general, but I think I-25 from Santa Fe to Raton for example is a really boring drive. It feels like it goes on forever and there’s nothing to look at. Same goes for some of the US highways connecting I-40 or I-25 with the northernmost part of the state. US-84 north of Santa Fe really suffers from outdated textures, I imagine it could be incredible like US-20/WY-789 north of Shoshoni if it were made today.

I-80 in Wyoming is great, because it’s never boring to drive. There is either a city or some kind of scenery to look at. If you want that vastness in Wyoming, you take literally any road leading north from I-80 and it’s just emptiness. I-25 in Wyoming also feels empty, but there’s a good amount of stuff to look at along the way and a decent amount of places to stop for the night.
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