Texas Discussion Thread

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Survivor11
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3141 Post by Survivor11 » 13 May 2022 07:31

NWbyNW wrote: 12 May 2022 22:04
koolizz wrote: 12 May 2022 08:21 @NWbyNW I have been pointing this rehashing of textures and models out for ages, but whenever you do you always get the response that ”most US states look same, they all share vegetation so its quite realistic”. You are absolutely right, there are variations in vegetations IRL that SCS cares little about. They reuse most assets across the whole map, which is why more and more DLCs are starting to look the same. The IRL differences to vegetation is mostly missing, even though there are some unique assets to some states.But its a bit of a shame when we can’t tell a Texas forestry blog from a Wyoming, Colorado or a Montana one. We should be able to, particularly in terms of vegetation variation.
Yeah, it's a shame. Everyone here just completely ignored my post as well as what you've been saying too. Instead one person responded harshly to my post trying to say that "because pine trees appear here on the map and there on the map, they are all the same, etc, etc." So I guess no one cares except us... Shame.
I'm not gonna lie, most of us are not botanists.
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Optional Features
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3142 Post by Optional Features » 13 May 2022 08:04

koolizz wrote: 13 May 2022 05:51 @seriousmods I don’t know much about trees either, but I know enough to know a Texas blog should not be using the same exact assets as all the other previous states blogs every time. At this rate all states are starting to look the same because not only are prefabs and companies copy pasted, so are vegetation, trees and parked cars and ai traffic. I cannot tell these blogs apart anymore. The only thing SCS really spend time on diversifying are buildings, they create a lot of custom houses and what not. But completely ignoring vegetation differences is leading to the world looking a bit boring. I don’t get a feeling of a variation in climate with these blogs, because I see the same vegetation copy pasted in northern Washington as across Texas.

Of course people here will ignore this even though they know its true (no one of the frequent users will respond), lets instead debate on about traffic signal designs or some other small irrelevant company detail that we could live without instead of telling SCS the world just looks bland and copy pasted at this point. Montana is not Texas. Washington is not New Mexico is not Oklahoma. There is way too little diversity to the vegetation in ATS, the game kind of suggests all states are the same except some pines in the north and some palm trees in the south. Thats not realistic at all and it sure is more important than some of the things people here spend 200 pages discussing. It would be wise to demand more of SCS in this regard before its too late and we drive around NY state with the same vegetation as the Pacific Northwest or Florida with the exact same as California. The complete US world is going to look more or less the same wherever we go in terms of vegetation, which should be more important for diversity than whatever company texture you slap on an old prefab.
I think the big problem continues to be the SCS team's understanding of America. From what I know, no one at SCS is a resident of the US? And none of their team members have even spent a month in the states? So I can kinda give them some credit for attempting to make an on-ground map of a country with only an occasional visit there.

That being said, SCS is missing the vibe of the US at this point almost 12 states in a row. The things they don't understand are clearly apparent, and will become more apparent as the map expands.

Some things they clearly don't understand:
  • 53 and 28-foot trailers are the standard in America, no other trailer size should be dominant in traffic.
  • Truckstops are always crowded, even in the day.
  • Cities are built around freeways, meaning many delivery/repair/rest spots are immediately off an exit.
  • Ad space on freeways is at a premium, and companies spend thousands of dollars to put their name on a billboard or raise their sign so it can be seen from far. Billboards and tall signs for everything from gas to food to hotels to shopping are pervasive, in small towns and even areas with no town at all.
  • America is mostly rural with hundreds of miles between most major cities, including in large parts of California.
  • In the same vein, farms are everywhere, rely on trucks to haul goods and equipment in and out, and often cover swaths of land with nothing else around. They are major operations.
  • Distribution centers, specifically Amazon, are also enormous and often outside of cities. They should be in every state, again along highway exits, and full of trailers and trucks.
  • Mountain passes are steep and often treacherous even in dry conditions: climbing and descending are major stress points of a trucker's life.
  • Mountains, rock walls, and trees along roadways often dwarf the land and routes beneath them. Trees aren't just taller than a truck (or 2-3 times as tall): they could be 100 feet or more. Same is true for mountains: they make you feel small.
  • Flora and fauna differ wildly between regions, and just because something is in one place doesn't mean that it can be accurate in another.
  • Businesses are surrounded almost exclusively by chainlink and barbed wire fences. Some use wrought iron or steel, while most homes have wood or vinyl. Brick fences are incredibly uncommon, especially around a business.
  • Trains are often miles long and have multiple engines and hundreds of cars.
  • Freeway curves are almost always banked, rounded, and elongated: they sweep more than they turn more like an airplane banking into a turn.
  • Bridges, including overpasses are almost never the same height as other parts of the same roadway.
  • US infrastructure is crumbling in many places: freeways are by no means smooth except when just paved.
  • And finally, trucks in the US represent final mile deliveries for just about everything, everywhere. Household goods are delivered in suburbs via 18-wheeler. Building and landscaping products including grass and bark are delivered via semi. Food is delivered to downtowns via semi. And the list goes on. If you bought it, a truck brought it.
With all of these concepts seemingly unknown, it's literally impossible for them to create a map that at scale feels like America. I pointed out to a friend a few days ago that in one city, SCS put the truck dealer in the center of the city, where I believe an apartment is irl. In that same town irl, the corresponding truck dealer's lot is literally feet off the freeway, and seemingly accessible from a highway exit and two right turns. Another dealer and an equipment yard appear to be on that same exit.

SCS almost never puts truck dealers on freeways, though, or heavy equipment dealers, or distribution centers, or a number of other things. The farms they have added so far are small and unimpressive. The mountains and the roads through them are short and flat, and the cities are way overrepresented based on their location irl.

I constantly talk about Northern Cali, but really it's the whole
map.

Now that the pandemic has died down, they really owe it to themselves to take some breaks from development and actually drive through the places they are attempting to recreate. Colorado is probably the best state because of such a trip. Wyoming is one of the worst (way too urban) because of a lack of such a trip.

And since rebuilding the map takes as long as building, it makes more sense to do it right the first time, with on the ground research. Without satellite based mapping tools, physical research is the only way to be accurate.
Last edited by Optional Features on 13 May 2022 08:28, edited 1 time in total.
fra_ba
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3143 Post by fra_ba » 13 May 2022 08:25

Not sure if it's brought up already, but both entries from Texas to Clovis and Hobbs have port of entries. One is located here near Texico and the other one is here. Also there is a welcome sign for Hobbs here which would be easy to make. Though post this here to let devs know if they missing them.
Shiva
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3144 Post by Shiva » 13 May 2022 10:16

NWbyNW wrote: 12 May 2022 22:49 Oops, sorry, didn't see this. Yes, these particular pines all exist within the central east Texas eco-region and around various areas of the Gulf. These would be proper tree's to have instead of the one's they are using in the blog post photos.
There is still time for them to have the proper trees for the areas. Could be close to half a year to release.
But if this would have been during open beta for the patch that would bring Texas, then one would be worried.
When checking google streetviews, I did see trees that reminded quite lot of PNW trees, sadly I can't find those areas again.
But it could have been younger trees of what grows in Texas? They weren't very tall, but maybe 5 to 10 metres. 16ft to 32ft.
koolizz wrote: 13 May 2022 05:51 @seriousmods I don’t know much about trees either, but I know enough to know a Texas blog should not be using the same exact assets as all the other previous states blogs every time. At this rate all states are starting to look the same because not only are prefabs and companies copy pasted, so are vegetation, trees and parked cars and ai traffic. I cannot tell these blogs apart anymore. The only thing SCS really spend time on diversifying are buildings, they create a lot of custom houses and what not. But completely ignoring vegetation differences is leading to the world looking a bit boring. I don’t get a feeling of a variation in climate with these blogs, because I see the same vegetation copy pasted in northern Washington as across Texas.

Of course people here will ignore this even though they know its true (no one of the frequent users will respond), lets instead debate on about traffic signal designs or some other small irrelevant company detail that we could live without instead of telling SCS the world just looks bland and copy pasted at this point. Montana is not Texas. Washington is not New Mexico is not Oklahoma. There is way too little diversity to the vegetation in ATS, the game kind of suggests all states are the same except some pines in the north and some palm trees in the south. Thats not realistic at all and it sure is more important than some of the things people here spend 200 pages discussing. It would be wise to demand more of SCS in this regard before its too late and we drive around NY state with the same vegetation as the Pacific Northwest or Florida with the exact same as California. The complete US world is going to look more or less the same wherever we go in terms of vegetation, which should be more important for diversity than whatever company texture you slap on an old prefab.

Texas - Nature #1 (Plains, Fields, Meadows)
Now you are a tad pessimistic.
For me, it looks like you never have driven ETS2. Especially with that half wall of text you wrote.
Prove me wrong.

Maybe someone could check what trees are in https://blog.scssoft.com/2022/05/texas- ... ustry.html
And make a list of what trees are shown?

There seem to be plantations in Texas too https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... ions+texas
Has SCS thought of adding places like this? https://www.google.com/maps/@32.2838376 ... 384!8i8192 1 example.
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Travismods
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3145 Post by Travismods » 13 May 2022 10:41

@Shiva What exactly is that blog link supposed to prove? I looked through all pictures and I don't spot a single tree, plant or brush that wasn't used in other states. They are reusing most of all vegetation assets from previous states, too heavily, which was my point. Now if I am wrong, please point out what vegetation assets in that blog we have not seen already and I won't dispute it, but I am not seeing it in those pictures. Of course, there could be the one exception, there is always exceptions. But what I am seeing on these blogs are generally the same assets, over and over again, as far as vegetation but also traffic, prefabs, pedestrians and other props go.

Call me pessimistic, and you are probably at times right. I call it staying realistic most of the time, based on SCS track record. People speculate on everything between heaven and earth making DLCs but then in the end, the track record shows there is little delivered when it comes to diversity to assets (beyond custom city buildings, there are always a ton of those so that is not what I'm referring). Why else can't I tell one forestry blog apart from another states blog? They all look more or less the same. There is enough positivity towards SCS going on here and on the blogs, I think SCS can survive a handful of bickering realists amongst the sea of endless praise.
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3146 Post by flight50 » 13 May 2022 12:15

Survivor11 wrote: 13 May 2022 07:26
If I recall correctly, SCS only has between 4 to 8 people working on a single state at a time.

I'm not sure about that however, so don't quote me on it.
You are way off my friend. Every release stream, they tell us how many people worked on a dlc. Its typically 10 to 12 people. Not all are full time working it as some gets pulled. No way anything releases on time with 4-8 people unless it's Eastern states coming solo.

The California rework stream the other day, SCS mentioned there was 12-13 on it at one time. Imagine what other states need. ATS started the base map with 5-7 people back in like 2014. It's been a lonnnnng time since they had as few number as you mention.
Last edited by flight50 on 14 May 2022 06:19, edited 1 time in total.
Shiva
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3147 Post by Shiva » 13 May 2022 14:09

@koolizz
based on SCS track record
Well, at the moment there might be wrong evergreens in the Texas latest blog post. But that should change.
Or do you mean that SCS can get vegetation right in Europe, but not in USA?
Regarding bickering realists, are you on MSFS forums too, wanting and demanding stuff? for example.
Remember what the blog post said? Or the name of it? There might come more of the same type, but this time without scrubs and bushes + grass?
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3148 Post by Survivor11 » 13 May 2022 14:55

flight50 wrote: 13 May 2022 12:15
Survivor11 wrote: 13 May 2022 07:26
If I recall correctly, SCS only has between 4 to 8 people working on a single state at a time.

I'm not sure about that however, so don't quote me on it.
You are way off mh friend. Every release stream, they tell us how many people worked on a dlc. Its typically 10 to 12 people. Not all are full time working it as some gets pulled. No way anything releases on time with 4-8 people unless it's Eastern states coming solo.

The California rework stream the other day, SCS mentioned there was 12-13 on it at one time. Imagine what other states need. ATS started the base map with 5-7 people back in like 2014. It's been a lonnnnng time since they had as few number as you mention.
Thanks for the correction.
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SuchManor
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3149 Post by SuchManor » 14 May 2022 01:53

Just recently visited western/ southwestern Texas for the first time. All I’m going to say is that I truly hope SCS has a plan for longer draw distances because you can see out for what seems like hundreds of miles. If not, Texas will not look or feel anything like Texas.
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3150 Post by LATrucker » 14 May 2022 12:48

Shiva wrote: 11 May 2022 23:55
LATrucker wrote: 11 May 2022 21:58 In the social media video there seems to be a train on one of the bridges. I couldn't find the location too till now
Ohh, cheers! I had not looked at that twitter post.
I might try to use https://ftp.txdot.gov/pub/txdot-info/tp ... ad-map.pdf to check where it could be.
Unless you already found it?
I was finally able to find the exact location of Pic 12! :D
It's located on the US-96 between Silsbee and Lumberton.
Maybe the other screenshots are in this area too

Btw. this pretty much confirms Beaumont since this location is located 19 mi north of it
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