Texas Discussion Thread

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VTXcnME
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#5471 Post by VTXcnME » 26 Sep 2022 11:44

@flight50 We'll see how the launch goes. There were teasers a while back for something big coming.... I never really saw a follow up to that. I'm really hoping that means, something big coming with Texas. Like new industry? New game functionality? I lean more toward industry, as we haven't started OB for 1.46. If there were a game functionality, I really have to imagine there would have been an OB for that by now. Like you said though, the blog posts for Texas haven't been real informative (at least to me) as to what we can expect in Texas. It looks like more of the same so far. Industry hasn't been really highlighted yet. Just city stuff, rocks, construction.

I'm going to try avoiding the Negative Ned comments about Texas, as we don't even have it yet. I imagine everyone at SCS knows that folks expectations for Texas are sky high. For me: Industry is EVERYWHERE in Texas. I'm really hoping that shines in this DLC. I'm thinking like you, if it's just a recycle of the status quo.... SCS is going to have to do some explaining as to why the ongoing disparity exists between ETS2 companies and ATS companies. I knew the disparity was high, but 175 against 56.... ETS2 has just over triple the number of in game companies with most cargo categories having MULTIPLE competing companies. I might try to get total square mileage sizes for all DLC's just to see how close the two are in size. But it really will beg the question: Why is the cargo/company process not being developed in the same way for ATS?

I'm really hoping Texas starts to address this. It appears an answer might be on the horizon though, if the SteamAPI date is in fact pointing toward Texas.
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oldmanclippy
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#5472 Post by oldmanclippy » 26 Sep 2022 13:31

Annie said that she thought that we would be happy on the company front, so until she is proven wrong I will trust her words. Now the industries and cargo front, that's still up in the air. And like others I am worried about those. I will echo @flight50's comment that it should have been a no-brainer to release a paid Oil and Gas Cargo Pack alongside Texas. If every state released alongside a paid cargo pack I'd buy them day one. I think it's fair to expand existing industries via paid DLCs as long as they're decently fleshed out as part of the map DLC they are introduced in.

I know people disagree on the whole "new region" distinction for Texas, but in terms of a mindset it would have been nice for SCS to treat Texas like what it is, part of a different part of the country compared to states we've seen previously, because it is. It is not part of the West or Mountain West, but rather is a combination of Southwest, Great Plains, South, Gulf Coast, Southeast, and its own Greater Texas region. Perhaps more than any other ATS DLC since Oregon, it will feel like a radical departure from what we're used to.

Massive cities. Small towns that would be big cities in other states. New biomes. Dense road network. Frontage roads everywhere. City-sized intersections as the norm. I've said it before, but I think Texas will be the most ETS2-like DLC that ATS will have until the Midatlantic in terms of an extensive road network with large cities everywhere. But it will also be its own thing just as alien to ETS2 players.

Geographic diversity. Heck just look at the ecoregion map. It looks like the Morrowind map it's that diverse :lol:

[ external image ]
https://tpwd.texas.gov/education/hunter ... ecoregions

Of those 10 ecoregions, I'd say that Piney Woods, Post Oak Savannah, Blackland Prairie, Crosstimbers, South Texas Plains, and Rolling Plains are all new. With Gulf Prairies and Marshes being similar to the Black Sea coast. Now will all of those regions be represented properly? Probably not, but the opportunity is there.

...

In terms of release date, interesting to see that November might be the release month. The speculation has been trending in that direction so not too surprising but nice to see a "confirmation".

Nov 22 is US Thanksgiving so they'd be dumb to release it then, so my money is on Nov 15. But we'll see, the placeholder isn't a guarantee that it won't slip to December.

Pretty surreal that Texas might be a month and a half away after all this time of waiting. It's getting close, hopefully it's ready to impress.
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flight50
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#5473 Post by flight50 » 26 Sep 2022 14:37

Vinnie Terranova wrote: 26 Sep 2022 11:08 I'd rather see SCS postponing Texas till Q2 2023 if SCS needs more time to create some much needed new companies, cargoes and prefabs.
Unfortunately I agree with this. Q1/Q2 would be fine with me. If its a matter of Texas bringing 8-10 new companies vs matching an ETS2 dlc at 20+, I'll take the delay all day every day. As I keep saying, Texas is large enough to bring a flood of new companies. Spend the time to make them now and you have lots of options to do swaps for the previous states and lots of options to populate future states. Texas as too much space to bring repeats. Too much space to be able to spread out with different city being able to bring different things. Change of the mindset of company population in ATS. Texas is the state to do that.

Its the same companies I keep talking about every week that can bring competitor stores. I'll keep mentioning them until it soaks in for the ATS map team/asset teams. What options do we have? Current in game/competitor:
Wallbert/Target
Ultimus/Posted, UDS
Darwing/Lockheed Martin, Bell
Chemso/Dow, Lyndnell Bassett, DuPont
Plaster & Sons/ The Turner Corp, Bechtel, Fluor, Kiewit Corp
Global Mills/Kraft, Posted, Kellogg's
Charged/Conn's, Dell, HP, Samsung, Texas Instruments
Faraday Energy/General Electric
Bushnell/JBS, Cargill
USBB/Pepsi, Dr.Pepper, Kolico
Deepgrove/Chuck & Jack's, Weyerhaeuser, Georgia Pacific, Universal Forest Products, Idaho Forest Group, Canfor, Sierra Pacific Industries
Page & Price Paper/Georgia Pacific, International Paper
Heartwood Furniture/Ikea,Rooms to Go, Ashley
SellGoods/JB Hunt, XPO, Landstar, Schneider, Swift, Werner, ABS, Yellow, Saia, Old Dominion, Prime, UPS(UDS), FedEx (Posted), R+L, Estes
Home Store/Lowes, Menards (Midwest)
Goliath/Caterpillar,Komatsu, JD(avoid), Liebherr, Hitachi, Volvo (we have it, but not a plant)
HMS/Caterpillar, CNH Industrial, Exline, ATS (Advanced Technology Services)
Olthon Homes/DR Horton, Lennar, PulteGroup, NVR
Walden's/Brightview, Trugreen
Gallon Oil/Exxon, Shell, ConocoPhillps,Valero,
42 Print/RR Donnelley
Coastline Mining,NAMIQ/Cemex, Vulcan Materials, Martin Marietta Material
Johnson & Smith/RailWorks, Ameritrack Rail
Rail Export,American Lines/CSX, Norfolk, Kansas Southern
Butimen/Granite Construction, Lane Construction, Kiewit
Avalanche Steel/Metal Management, Omnisource, Sims Metal, PSC Metals
Fish Tale Foods/ Trident (assumed this is Fish Tale), Red Chamber Group
Steeler/Nucor, Schnitzer Steel
Eddy's,Tidbit/CVS,Walgreens
Farmers Barn - not sure what this one really is. Wiki labels it as supermarket. There Central Market, Whole Foods, Spouts
Car Dealership - tons to choose from
MWM - 1 more
Sea Horizon/Armstrong Marine, White River Marine
Vitas Power/Siemens, GE
Sunshine Crops - tons to choose from


New Potential
Clothing - Kohl's, Ross, TJ Maxx, Marshalls
Dedicated grocery chains 4-5
Bakery company - Bimbo, Flowers, Sara Lee
Precast company 2
Farming Wholesaler - 2
Sporting Goods/Cabela's, BassPro, Dick's
Household - Proctor Gamble, Kimberly Clark
Textiles
Flooring
......
Bulk Wholesaler - Sam's, Costco
Dedicated Grocery - Kroger, Albertsons, Publix (regional), HEB (Tx), Meijer, HyVee, Freds, Aldi's, WinCo Foods

There's a lot more to add to the "new potential" but I'll stop there. I'm suppose to be getting ready for work, lol. If Texas could knock out even 25% of something from a few of these categories, we good. Almost every last one of these exist somewhere in Texas. There's are market for them all in Texas. So add them now or later. Later creates a lot more issues because its involves revisiting older areas of the map more constantly and takes away from moving forward. Spend the time to make lots of these now and then there is a huge library for the remaining 30+ states.

Its really the same list I made before that Texas can have a pool to pick from. If Texas doesn't add what it can, I don't see any other state being able to do it. Texas and California are the 2 largest in the lower 48 that has the largest cities that can bring so many of these national chain companies. So far, neither states is really knocking out anything from this list. Texas's best chance to please and be top notch, is knocking out some of this list finally. I don't understand why it can't happen for ATS when it happens for every ETS2 dlc. Its totally possible, SCS just has to want to do it.
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LATrucker
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#5474 Post by LATrucker » 26 Sep 2022 16:06

This discussion reminds me of the discussion about the missing YS NP in the WY thread back then.
The discussion heated up pretty fast until Davido shared this screenshot with the Welcome sign and the relief came immediately :lol:

Maybe a Texas developer or someone from the design team can chime in here. It doesn't has to be specific, but it would calm down some/our ( :lol: ) minds. ;)
Trakaplex
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#5475 Post by Trakaplex » 26 Sep 2022 16:07

I haven't been online for this weekend, that blog was surprise lol...

And we have Denton... 8-)

And Pic 23, Texarkana is misspelled.
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Trucker Nik
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#5476 Post by Trucker Nik » 26 Sep 2022 17:00

Nice catch the players predictions are probably Texas will come out in late November or early December my guess is from November 20th to December 20th we will get Texas @flight50 thanks for correction
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#5477 Post by Trakaplex » 26 Sep 2022 17:02

Nice interchanges, but why isn't High Five featured in this? I drive by it all the time...
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#5478 Post by Ryley03d » 26 Sep 2022 17:17

Trakaplex wrote: 26 Sep 2022 17:02 Nice interchanges, but why isn't High Five featured in this? I drive by it all the time...
Probably spoilers, just aws the Katy Freeway isn't featured
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flight50
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#5479 Post by flight50 » 26 Sep 2022 17:25

@VTXcnME I agree expectations are really high for Texas. Again for those that think its all about my home state......its not. Has nothing to do with wanting because its my home. @oldmanclippy's map below show's why I think Texas can offer so much. My list above of companies that SCS should be implementing shows that Texas has the space to offer so much. Imho, Texas can easily bring 70% all new companies to ATS but it won't. I don't even think 50% new comes but I wish that is the minimum that SCS shoots for. So if there are 56 total ATS companies, that means Texas should get 28 new companies to make 50%. No way that happens. 25% of 56 is only 14 new companies...too low still. 30-35% of 56 total ATS companies is more ideal for Texas. That's still less companies than ETS2 dlc's but its at least better than what we typically get.

I think its much much easier for SCS to just model after ETS2 with more companies than trying to explain why they don't add companies to ATS like ETS2. Make it make sense as to why ATS can't get the same treatment. I don't think there is a valid reason not to bring more for ATS but I'd love to hear the the answers. The current one....its not easy does not work. That's an excuse. I'm sure its the same effort in ETS2. Like I keep saying, make the flood of company's now and its easier for ATS in the future. Plan for the future now. Research 5-6 years ahead of time and figure out what needs to come well before (x) state comes.

@oldmanclippy Your map shows a lot of regional environments. Its similar and informative like the one posted awhile back by AlexxxF1 iirc. I talk about Texas potential for a reason and its that reason that SCS should load Texas up. Its that same reason as you state that its the one ATS dlc that can bring us what ETS2 offers consistently. When playing around with the "true size" map, its unreal how huge Texas is compared to other US states and even to Europe and to not taking advantage of that space is a mistake that SCs may not be able to recover from. Repeating companies is getting old and less tolerable. I stress new for a reason. Its not just for Texas, its for ATS. Make it for Texas and update the rest of the map accordingly. Make it for Texas and 9/10 it works for the base map. Make it for the base map rebuilds and 9/10 it goes in several other states.

Texas and Oklahoma are the only 2 Southern states we get for awhile if Pavel is going for the Great Lakes. Texas helps Oklahoma with some things. The MidWest pops up in 2023 I am sure. That is around the corner. Kansas/Nebraska.....those states will be in the same boat as Texas/Oklahoma. Its a new region so start thinking new region. But even though its a new region, the same list above, offers tons of national based companies that go for the Midwest, the West and the South as well. Mix in the regional companies for the Midwest and now ATS is just as attractive with company variety as its big sister/big brother.

Like I said before, ignoring to and waiting to add more and more companies makes things much much harder on the devs in the future. Help yourselves now, makes it easier in the future. Sure its not easily going back to add to existing states in 2022/2023, but imagine once ATS is 75%-80% complete. In 2030 how easy will it be to then go add all the national based companies missed. Think about going back then and its a ton more work. Why wait when so many national companies are out there now that covers 75%+ of the US. Why wait when regions offer specific companies that covers entire regions. Its not going to get easier so tackling companies now is a much better solution. Texas......its all on Texas to start things off. Too much space to toy around with. Continuing to over use the same companies is not a great solution ATS if ETS2 is not doing it. I'll be on repeat about this until change comes. It benefits all players, not just me.
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#5480 Post by flight50 » 26 Sep 2022 17:56

Ryley03d wrote: 26 Sep 2022 17:17
Trakaplex wrote: 26 Sep 2022 17:02 Nice interchanges, but why isn't High Five featured in this? I drive by it all the time...
Probably spoilers, just aws the Katy Freeway isn't featured
The Katy isn't really an interchange, its just wide. The High Five, either spoiler or just not there. My guess is not there....for now. Like I mentioned a few post back, unless we get a depot in North Dallas, no point in the High 5. In the past I mentioned roads that could come off US-75 in order to get it a depot though. I'm routing for something to North Dallas though. Stopping in downtown Dallas removes a ton of retail and other business that are North of downtown. There is more to offer off US-75 and 635 than there is off I-35 and I-20. Between I-35, I-30, I-45, I-20, I-35 and US-75, these is a massive amount that Dallas could offer. I am sure the same can be said with Houston with I-10, I-45, I-610, I-69 and TX-8 that we probably won't get due to space.

Just by looking at the size of some of the interchanges in the interchange blog, those things are 1:1. Some are just as large as small cities as the blog stated. Imagine the High 5 being the same size as Trinidad, CO, Craig, CO, Monticello, UT, Shoshone, ID, Montpelier, ID....that adds up and takes up a ton of space. If we don't get 635 which I doubt, we won't get all of the High 5 anyways. That thing is massive. I watch traffic on it every day outside my office window. I too drive thru it and under it every day. The size of that thing is larger than some may think.

In order to get the High 5 in full, it would have to be the intersection of 2 interstates that ATS can not do without. In this case its I-635 and US-75. 635 is a loop and slim chance of it making the game despite having several large trucking warehouse areas off it. Dallas runs out of space because Ft. Worth also needs room to be a large city. No way DFW exist without Ft. Worth having its footprint in. Pic 7 and Pic 8 are probably the closets to High 5 size we get. The ramps are super long and stretches are at least 1/2 mile long in all directions in real life. I don't see that being enough space along with everything else Dallas needs. My guess is we get 50% of the High 5 though. SCS will have to be creative with it so that it looks right. US-75 thru the high 5 unfortunately is the very very bottom so the view is very limited. This actually helps SCS a lot though. They can hide a half of it.

Southbound https://www.google.com/maps/@32.9247308 ... 8192?hl=en

Northbound https://www.google.com/maps/@32.9230961 ... 8192?hl=en. My office building is the one brown curve front bldg in this view when looking back South. If SCS get this in, that will probably be the first and only bldg I've ever been in that makes ATS, lol.
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