Texas Discussion Thread

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flight50
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3171 Post by flight50 » 17 May 2022 12:39

Since the logging blog was referenced, did anyone check the comments at all? A dev already chimed in and stated they will change out the trees and thanked a poster for pointing it out.

They admitted to the mistake and most of the time, SCS is not allowed to make them because they are not human and perfect correct? If all the research on trees was done, reading the blogs is part of that. Most people that notice vegetation pointed in out. Its acknowledged. I honestly had zero care on the tree used. I'm no botanist but I agree they should be corrected for authenticity. That difference from Texas to the PNW has to be represented to distinguish the difference in regions. That minor detail is why the blog looked like what we already have.

Blogs present things to provide feedback. I just traveled from Dallas to Little Rock via I-30 and I took note of the pines as I traveled that stretch. I am sure the same species I saw is the dominant pine thru out East Texas. The pines are definitely wrong. So imagine this......what if the research team did their job but the mapper didn't and things slipped thru the cracks? What if the mapper is a newbie or a junior and thinks all trees in the US are the same? No one has the time to go check a minor thing like this at this stage to check accuracy but all of SCS gets the blame. So when blogs come out, we are those extra set of eyes. Several things in the past have been pointed out from blogs and corrected for the final release. Same thing will happen here.

As usual, some of you will say this is defending SCS. Call it that if you wish. But check the blogs and read as part of the research on the issue. The devs won't always come here to comment but the comment to correct was posted days ago.
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Travismods
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3172 Post by Travismods » 17 May 2022 13:03

"So imagine this......what if the research team did their job but the mapper didn't and things slipped thru the cracks? What if the mapper is a newbie or a junior and thinks all trees in the US are the same? No one has the time to go check a minor thing like this at this stage to check accuracy but all of SCS gets the blame. "

Theoretically possible, but it also sounds like an excuse due to the amount of times SCS has gotten basic stuff wrong. Nobody is saying its not good to have a back and forth with the community on authenticity and detail, obviously thats how it should be. But the question has always been and continues to be: why does SCS so rarely get these things correct from the get go? It's not rocket science. Maybe, just maybe it has to do with who they hire or don't hire and how they use their resources. If SCS hired or contracted at least some professionals in relevant fields other than learning the map editor and modeling trucks they would get more things right from the start, and would have more time for other things, like adding interactivity and diversity. They
as a company of several hundred employees should be able to get a lot of things right with these maps from the get go, not rely on their community to points out all the flaws. Hell you don't even need hires, all of this information is available online to learn. But it seems they don't spend enough time learning and studying before they build their maps. Some help in this area would probably do some good for SCS, so that they wouldn't have to rely solely on comments on a blog post on what is right and wrong.
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3173 Post by Shiva » 17 May 2022 13:24

koolizz
SCS Number of employees 170 (+30 contractors) (2019)
RockStar North Number of employees 650 (2018) "now +1k, if I read right on a webpage"
You never do any mistakes, goofups etc?

Quark, thumbs up to the post! +10/10 !
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3174 Post by parasaurolophus67 » 17 May 2022 13:25

@flight50 where? I looked at both logging blogs and I didn't see them saying it .-. But still good to know nevertheless.
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flight50
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3175 Post by flight50 » 17 May 2022 13:41

Look at the post "A User" made on the Texas logging blog. There is only one. Not sure why you say both. Simon Endt is the Texas map lead. I am traveling so I am not on my desktop so I can't snapshot easily.
Last edited by flight50 on 17 May 2022 13:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3176 Post by parasaurolophus67 » 17 May 2022 13:44

Ah found it! good to know tho.
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flight50
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3177 Post by flight50 » 17 May 2022 13:55

Shiva wrote: 17 May 2022 13:24 koolizz
SCS Number of employees 170 (+30 contractors) (2019)
More recent numbers according to the latest streams report about 200 in Prague now iirc. Then you have all the contractors. The vast majority are the map and asset teams. Each team has roughly 25+ mappers. Asset guys are 2:1 or 1:1 if what MandelSoft stated back in 2017-2018 (I can't remember) when he still worked at SCS still holds up. That's a huge force dedicated to map production. Hopefully the vehicle team and programmers make up the other huge portion.
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3178 Post by Travismods » 17 May 2022 13:56

@Shiva I wasn’t talking about Rockstar, so why are you? There are goofups everywhere in all open world games, this is not news. I ask again, why does SCS get basic location relevant assets wrong like vegetation, road curvature, elevation, trailer dimension often from the get go and relies so heavily on their community to be correct? They should be able to figure out location specific vegetation when making a dlc like this, we are not talking about a typo on a road sign or a mountain texture being slightly misaligned. We are talking about completely misrepresenting whole areas unless the community is there to correct them. That displays a lack of knowledge. The SCS employee count wasn’t even the point of my comment lol and you know it. Why you always have to focus on something beside the point? This discussion was not on current SCS employee count, it was on SCS getting Texas vegetation wrong, and the user Quark walking us through just how much is wrong and how heavily they reuse assets from PNW states and NM.
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3179 Post by Shiva » 17 May 2022 15:00

@koolizz that was for your
a company of several hundred employees
flight50, cheers :)
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Re: Texas Discussion Thread

#3180 Post by oldmanclippy » 17 May 2022 15:08

I find that the research team is really good at finding cool buildings and other manmade landmarks to include that increase immersion, but when it comes to landscapes I do think there has been less attention to detail. There is absolutely attention to detail given to mapping landscapes which are of very high quality, but there are a few locations in each map that, when compared to Google Maps / Street View, make you go "what were they looking at when they researched this?". ETS2 I think the landscapes do feel distinct and different from region to region, so perhaps there needs to be some cross-game research strategy sharing. ETS2 needs to share landscape research strategy and company diversity strategy. The ATS team needs to figure out very quickly that the US is an incredibly ecologically, culturally, and economically diverse place. Not as much as Europe, but still surprisingly high levels of diversity.

Grand Teton National Park, Jackson, and Jackson Hole, a masterclass in using the right vegetation, road signs, mountain models, etc. Perfectly researched. It is uncanny how great it feels to drive through. Best part of the game.

Salt Lake City, a big missed opportunity. Wrong mountain models, a downtown area that feels more like a theme park version of SLC, and lots of missing industry on the northwest side. Really poorly researched. Worst part of the game because the rest of Utah is so excellent.

Washington SR 20, a fantastically researched road.

I-5 near Mount Shasta in the CA rework, a poorly researched road.

I-15 in Idaho, a fantastically researched road.

US-95 near White Bird Hill in Idaho, a poorly researched road.

I-84 in Oregon, a fantastically researched road (with poor implementation east of Pendleton).

...

In the last few ETS2 expansions, there have been very few locations (I can't even think of an example off the top of my head) that seemed poorly researched. Romanian ecology and geography feels distinct from Bulgaria which feels distinct from Turkey. Andalusian ecology and geography feels distinct from Portugal which feels distinct from Catalonia which feels distinct from Galicia which feels distinct from the Basque Country etc etc etc.

I think overall, ATS does a good job *in a broad sense* in differentiating states. Washington has a distinct vibe from Oregon which has a distinct vibe from Idaho which has a distinct vibe from Wyoming etc etc etc. Washington, Wyoming, and now the CA rework are the best at this IMO. But on a micro level, there are instances where assets get reused too often, which is less of a problem for building prefabs as it is for landscape elements such as rocks and vegetation. It's good that Simon acknowledged that the trees need to be "Texas-ified", but I agree that the problem should not have occurred in the first place. They have done a good job with rocks, I think they need to seek out an expert in vegetation to advise them going forward. Even if they just pay for a day long consulting session to poke their brain about regional differences in US vegetation. Every little bit of knowledge will help.

With Texas, I want to be able to be dropped anywhere in the state and immediately know where I am. Signage, road design, buildings, etc all play a part, but so does vegetation and landscape. Northern Texas will feel like Southern Oklahoma, Eastern Texas will feel like Western Louisiana, and Western Texas will feel like Eastern New Mexico of course because geography doesn't care about state lines, but with a state as big as Texas with its own unique and distinct regions within it I think the differentiation should be key.
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