Montana Discussion Thread

[supersobes]

I didn't say that they should make the road straighter than it is IRL. I said that they shouldn't make it curvier than is IRL. All I'm asking for is for SCS to make the curves on I-90 the same way they are IRL. If the curves are sharp enough that you cannot maintain 40 MPH (5 MPH less than the signed advisory speed on the real-life road), then it's probably too sharp. I'm not asking for an arrow straight road; I'm just asking for the road not be exaggerated too much.

I also don't drive faster than 60-65 MPH. I play with the speed limiter enabled, so it's not like I'm asking for anything too unrealistic. For the most part, the Interstates in the newer map DLCs are better, but there are still a few curves here and there that are too sharp. I'm also not the only one who thinks that some of the Interstates are too curvy and sharp in ATS. I've had many conversations here and elsewhere with people who think the same thing.

[rbsanford]

However that part of the 90 is modeled, I hope Wallace will be a scenic town. The entire downtown was declared a National Historic Landmark to prevent it from being demolished when I-90 was built, and the highway curves around the town pressed along the feet of the mountains. I hope there will be room for it; if the summit of Lookout Pass is to be on the ID/MT line in the UI map, then it could be a tight fit. I don't think any of those crazy Sierra Nevada mod curves would be needed; here's a crude concept:

[ external image ]
W: Wallace
L: Lookout Pass

By the way, those two stretches of Interstate may be close to the same length IRL, but in the game I'm sure the CDL-Missoula trip will feel shorter due to how spread out CDL is and Missoula could be. Here's another crude concept:

[ external image ]
The red circle marks the approximate location of Missoula, which is about due north of Salmon and due east of Yakima; the size of the circle is a conservative estimate of how big the city could be in the game, but I can see it being bigger. Even imagining the curves of I-90, this is looking like a shorter drive than between Pendleton and Ontario, at least from the player's perspective. That realistic curvy vibe will be necessary to give a better sense of distance, and as long as the curves have the appropriate superelevation (and more recent DLCs tell me they will), then I don't see a problem.

[supersobes]

If the distance between Coeur d'Alene and Missoula is the concern, Missoula could always be pushed to the east a bit. Not all of the city locations in ATS are 100% accurate, and it seems to be working alright. If it helps the road between two cities to be more realistic, then I don't see a problem with moving a city slightly from its actual location.

[flight50]

Pushing Missoula East conflicts with Butte. That trip become Longview and Vancouver. Wayyy to short. When I mention Reforma, I'm not referring to their most extreme in SN. They have plenty of nice subtle curvy roads. You haveto actually play the mod to understand. You'relooking in from the outside as a none map mod person. Anyone who plays or played SN can confirm........ they had fun driving the mod. Even the most extreme in SN can keep momentum of a truck. Colorado adopted plenty of Reforma like roads in my opinion and people are loving it. SCS went outside their typical summitless roads in Colorado and made a masterpiece.

Montana is the last paid dlc we get of the Rockies. Wyoming has some great curvy roads. The team needs to keep fun and immersion in mind. I do agree that sharp and loss of momentum is a no go for an interstate. But curvy does not always mean undrivable. As I mentioned, Oregon is not a good banking state. So that part if I-84 is not great. SCS can do better than that with the way they map now. Prime example of curvy is the new
I-15 in California. That is Reforma like and I don't see people making a fuss over it. People are having fun and that's what matters. In game, you don't focus on those same curves when driving them as you would just looking at the game map. Driving good curves is barely noticeable.

In the map rbsanford posted, another example is McCall to Grangeville or McCall to Boise. Those roads are curvy as they swing left to right...left to right. We'll need something like that for that entire stretch of 165 miles between Missoula and CDA to capture the right vibe.

[Trucker Nik]

I hope another part of US-93, from Salmon, will come with Montana, at least we'll get rid of one dead end

[rbsanford]

There's no reason to leave out US 93 over Lost Trail Pass; I just hope Lost Trail will have the right elevation change to it. It's a pretty curvy road, so it should be doable.

[flight50]

Agreed. No reason to not complete US-93. Not to mention, we'll need it to get to Kalispell. There will always be dead end though.

[TheAmir259]

I agree that the major/main roads that have been present from other states should make their continuation in full into Montana, those being US-2, US-93, US-12, US-191, etc. Although US-191 is quite tricky since as discussed before, the space beyond West Yellowstone seems to be too small to fit them all. I also do agree, that I-90 should just be moderately curved, not like the extreme ones in Sierra Nevada mod, its one of the few things that actually throws me off, I would've continued using the Reforma if that was actually separable from the rest.

Dead ends do not concern me much as long as it is realistic and logical. It's the discontinuities that i dislike, such as the (aforementioned) US-2 between Spokane and Sandpoint, the (soon-to-be-rectified) US-20 over Cody, the (magically-disappearing) US-26 over Oregon only to reappear in Idaho, and so on. They carry the main US Route designations, so they should make it into the game, along with the space available.

[Tristman]

I’m not so worried that I-90 will have the kind of turns that I-84 has around Cabbage Hill. After all, there’s a good amount of years that has passed, and SCS is much more competent at making curves with good flow now.

The tightness of the turns on I-84 + the lack of banking make it so you have to take them slow, even though they seem fairly high speed irl. There is not much to see or do in southeast direction of Cabbage Hill for a little while, so imo they could have utilized the space better to make turns more driveable.

SCS could apply the Reforma technique of cutting out certain parts of road so other parts can be featured at a better scale. But they already do that to some extent in newer DLC I think, so it wouldn’t surprise me if they already applied it to the I-90.

[flight50]

Agreed. I think they already have I-90 situated already and I doubt its like I-84. Curves will be there and I'm sure we won't be braking like I-84. I give them credit for making it flow right. This is not 2018 when Oregon released. We are 4 years past that and mapping is much much better. What was done in the past, is the past. That's like comparing the base map to the quality of Colorado/Wyoming. Give the credit for evolving. Give them the benefit of the doubt that such roads won't exist like 2016-2018. We got zero flow issues (that I recall) in Colorado nor Wyoming. Why would Montana revert backwards.....it won't. They'd splice out what they need (just like Tristam-94 stated) in order to make a smoother flow. I am sure the QA team test flow when driving. When it comes to interstates, I think they understand how flow should work now. I wouldn't be surprised if someday that section of Oregon is redone. They can make that a lot better with today's talent. Reforma understand flow and that is why some of their stuff is so extreme. Both gu ys are roadies and traveled the West quite a bit. So they have first hand experience. I meet those guys in person back in 2019 at GATS and I've had great communication with them....up until they merged their map. I too don't use their mod anymore because of the merge. But I had a ton of fun driving their SN map.

Once we get to the flatter GP states, its straight roads left and right so roads get shorter. In higher elevated lands, we need those curves to flow with the lands and I think SCS has found a good balance as of late. I wouldn't be surprised if a gameplay video in Montana takes us from CDA to Missoula. That route doesn't require extreme curves to pull off the vibe. Like the description I gave above, the minimum we should get is very similar to the US-95 reference I stated.

@TheAmir259 Yeah I'm totally with ya on the breaking up of roads like that. They did go back and fix US-191 in the South. So they added more parts to make it continue better. I think scale and 3d terrain models affect a lot of that type of stuff. I'm hoping that moving forward, they account for this and we get less of it. US-50 should be coming with the California rebuild so that we get the start of it now. Hopefully US-95 also gets that when they get to Nevada. Same for US-60/US-70 in there respective states. But something has to be done with US-2. I hope we get it well into the East. There are many of us that like the scenic route. When I take WoT jobs, that is what I prefer majority of the time. With the game transitioning into flatter lands, there should be less terrain model conflicts so I'm hoping that a lot of road density can come with cutplanes and treewalls in mind. Hopefully they limit the severing of roads as the map progresses. At least for some of the more well traveled US roads that link up several states. Imho, I think SCS should choose routes that they know they will continue across state borders. Once you introduce it, people will want them continued.