Montana Discussion Thread

User avatar
flight50
Posts: 30042
Joined: 20 May 2017 03:33
Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth, Tx - USA

Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1291 Post by flight50 » 08 May 2022 11:35

Viper28 wrote: 08 May 2022 06:15
yeah looking at google maps, nothing impressive when it comes to woods in Texas until you get east of I-45 not 35...
You can go with that if you'd like but I disagree. I stated I-35 because I-45 only goes from Galveston to Dallas. I-35 goes from Laredo Texas to Duluth Minnesota. That's why I said North to South. I wasn't referring to Texas only. I-55 you are much deeper into woodlands so I-35 North to South would give you more opportunities pushing East from the Great Plains.
JoeAlex23 wrote: 08 May 2022 05:29 i don't mind DeepGrove being the logging "monopoly" of the PNW but it has to end with Montana, would be cool to have at least another logging company up there but is not a deal breaker for me, but Texas 100% NEEDS a new logging company if they plan to add that industry to Texas, dragging DeepGrove all the way down there is not a good idea.
If Deepgrove was tied to just Washington, Oregon and Idaho, I could live wit that, but it goes beyond the PNW. Of the 11 states in the West, its in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Colorado, Wyoming and now Montana. Colorado is closer to Texas than it is Washington. Texas should be starting the 3rd Lumber company. I'm a bit concerned about company diversity in ATS though. I play the game to visit new ICCs. We keep getting the same companies repeated without enough replacing older ones. We got NAMIQ and now Mon Coeur but that's not enough. As the map grows and the base map rebuilt, we can use some thinning out of the repetitiveness.

As it stands now, we have:

[ external image ]
[ external image ]
[ external image ]
[ external image ]



Now compare that list to the just one page I'm posting for ETS2 for comparison.

[ external image ]


38 is the most that one company is getting used and that's Logistics which is understandable. ETS2 has a much larger map and yet, the top used depot is still less than double ATS's 2nd place in Plaster and Son's. What's up with Cooper? Like @harishw8r mentioned, its posted on Plaster & Sons prefabs but why? It can be a construction company. Wallbert desperately needs Target. There are Wallberts in the game now that are actually closer to Target prefabs than it is Walmart but we still get Wallbert....why? I understand there was no research team back then and SCS took shortcuts on North American companies with the lack of knowledge. But this isn't the case anymore. @Pavel should let Annie and Petr run wild and add new company logos to open up ATS. Then they need to be incorporated into a better logistics truck flow regionally, nationally and state wide. Not just nationally. I always thought the focus of the this game was the economy. ICCs should always be the focus. Everything else are pieces to the puzzle to support the economy.

The new industries coming to Montana are nice. We are getting some new companies indeed per the map editor so that will be sweet. But this Landscape company is better off being something totally different than Deepgrove and it can be used all over the US. 1 Landscape company per region would be ideal. That's only 4 landscape companies for the US alone. That works. But it being called Deepgrove too is a headscratcher and makes zero sense. Why go thru all that trouble to not make it stand out? I seriously hope it gets changed. They can't keep planting the same companies populating the US showing the lack of diversity. More and more people will start complaining that its copy paste. People won't care if there is a new prefab that was built or not. It still carries the same company name and ATS is overusing companies compared to ETS2. Too many states are getting the same company names when the US is just as diverse as Europe.

The economy needs to be replanned for ATS. If the plan is to go back and start replacing things like NAMIQ, sweet. I can applaud that. I can be patient with that mindset. But to continue to let ATS be on its current path with the talent we have with 2d concept artist onboard, their talents are being wasted. Let them help max out ATS's potential economy wise at the least. I'd fear they'd move on to another company in the future if they get board being limited. Turn them loose Pavel. I feel like they can be pitbull bulls in ATS if they are turned loose. ATS's appearance can drastically change in the environment with the concept artist we have. In the snap shots above, ATS for the most part only has 1 company per industry (category). At this stage, we need at least 2. 1/3rd of the US is about to be completed in 2022 more than likely and we simply don't have enough company diversity. The first 2 pics.....those companies are in more than 50% of the current states we can play. For a new person coming from ETS2....that would raise a red flag for me knowing that more diversity is over there but not in ATS. It gives the wrong impression that the US is repetitive in every state.
angrybirdseller
Posts: 3292
Joined: 05 Feb 2013 05:16
Location: Minnesota

Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1292 Post by angrybirdseller » 08 May 2022 13:44

Untied States has economies of scale in certain industries, so I expect Walbert to be all over the ATS map same with Home store, Orion Homes.

More industries are needed with downstream supply chains. It how you get new companies into the ATS world.

Europe is more fragmented market in some industries as Eastern Europe will tend to have smaller retailers to industries than France or UK.
User avatar
flight50
Posts: 30042
Joined: 20 May 2017 03:33
Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth, Tx - USA

Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1293 Post by flight50 » 08 May 2022 15:39

The US not being as fragmented is no reason for ATS to only have 1 company per industry for 80% of the current company roster. Its like ATS is being penalized for the continuity. We only have a handful of companies in which we have 2 companies per industry. Even if we look at national companies in the US that is actually represented in ATS right now, there is still a solid 10-12 companies that ATS could have currently just by adding the competitor depots.

I agree that more industries are needed to come online to fill out everything. 2022 will only complete about 1/3 of the US so there is a lot more to come. Lots of middle man companies will fill in gaps in the future and the puzzle becomes more complete. Those gaps can still have different company names though. They don't need to carry the same name just because they are part of the supply chain. Its not like that in real life. In real life you won't see John Doe Forest harvest going to John Doe sawmill going to John Doe Lumber yard, John Doe Home Store John Doe Paper Mill and John Doe Furniture store. The supply chain caters to different companies that buy from Source A..Logging site. That logging sight needs to stand on its own. A sawmill is passable but after that, nah. Same thing with a mine. You won't see a Home Depot retailer have a quarry, distributor or mine in order to get sand, limestone, gypsum, asphalt nor river rock. As each industry deepens, middle man companies don't have to be called the same as the source company. Where's the creativity is where I'm going with this.

The sugar plant coming with Montana, I just knew it would be called Global Mills or Farmer's Barn....but why? Now we know its called Sugar Beets. That works. Sugar Beets under its own umbrella is good. It can process and package sugar. That distribution can then go to Global Mills, Tidbit, Wallberts, Eddy's and any other food facilities that may come in the future. Waste Management, I'm happy to see it not being a branch of Avalanche Steel (scrapyard) or Plaster & Sons as demolition waste. Under its own umbrella, demolition waste can be one part of that cargo chain.

For the Landscaping supply...here is my issue with it called Deepgrove. What does Deepgrove produce? Lumber. So on this new Landscaping prefab, where do these highlighted things come from:

[ external image ]
[ external image ]
[ external image ]

I didn't even highlight the flowers and shrubbery thru out pic 1. That entire pic has like a dozen cargo options and none comes from a lumber harvest nor saw mill. Now that's what we have blogged. Now take a look here at this thread. How many products here in this link makes sense to come from a Lumber depot or saw mill with the title of Landscape supply? None. What's being blogged is a nursery and quarry/stone yard mixed into depot. In each of those bins that can be delivered by dumpers or chippers we can have sand, soil, gravel, mulch, peat, stones. You can easily double each of those to have cargo variety for each of the bins on that prefab. Those bins are not filled by lumber. Only mulch works from the lumber industry.

Landscape supply will have a variety in types of stones, bricks/pavers, substrates, aggregates, sod, fertilizers, seeds, plants, trees, shrubs, boulders, etc. Cargo can have a limitless imagination in this game. Whether core or paid, doesn't matter, just present it.
Last edited by flight50 on 08 May 2022 15:47, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
SuchManor
Posts: 1054
Joined: 21 Apr 2017 00:04
Location: Virginia, USA
Contact:

Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1294 Post by SuchManor » 08 May 2022 15:45

Does it say somewhere that those specific pictures are of Deepgrove? Maybe they are from the new Walden's landscape supply.
What good is a world without good detail?
Check out my screenshots
User avatar
flight50
Posts: 30042
Joined: 20 May 2017 03:33
Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth, Tx - USA

Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1295 Post by flight50 » 08 May 2022 15:49

Nope it doesn't which is a valid point. It all presents as part of the forestry supply chain though and I don't see how Deepgrove even got into the blog. The title of the blog is Montana Forestry when it should have just been about the new Landscaping Supply company. We already know about Deepgrove, there could have been a separate blog for new Logging depots if that is the point in showing them off. 3 of those 12 pics are the new landscaping supply, the rest all logging related. It would have been cooler to see multiple new companies that supplies the new Walden's depot.
User avatar
Marcello Julio
Posts: 5658
Joined: 12 Nov 2016 19:27
Location: Ceará, Brazil

Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1296 Post by Marcello Julio » 08 May 2022 17:17

Generally, they use placeholder companies until the definitive company is added. This has already happened on many ETS2 and ATS blogs.
User avatar
JoeAlex23
Posts: 2228
Joined: 04 Dec 2016 03:24
Location: Dominican Republic
Contact:

Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1297 Post by JoeAlex23 » 08 May 2022 18:12

Idk if it was just me, but the blog didn't give me the impression that the new landscape company will be called Deepgrove, we know SCS re-uses companies names a lot but at least they stay with what they have always been, Deepgrove will only have the sawmill, the depot and the harvest site, i do not believe for a second the new landscape company will carry the Deepgrove name, is just not possible until proven otherwise, i'm 90% sure this will be the name for it, call it wishful thinking but that makes a lot of sense for me.

Image
parasaurolophus67
Posts: 4571
Joined: 25 Sep 2018 12:32
Location: Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1298 Post by parasaurolophus67 » 08 May 2022 18:14

I agree with Joe, It has to be a new company and no way its just deepgrove If they named the new company in the blog.
Viper28
Posts: 289
Joined: 25 Jul 2019 01:25

Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1299 Post by Viper28 » 08 May 2022 19:44

flight50 wrote: 08 May 2022 11:35
Viper28 wrote: 08 May 2022 06:15
yeah looking at google maps, nothing impressive when it comes to woods in Texas until you get east of I-45 not 35...
You can go with that if you'd like but I disagree. I stated I-35 because I-45 only goes from Galveston to Dallas. I-35 goes from Laredo Texas to Duluth Minnesota. That's why I said North to South. I wasn't referring to Texas only. I-55 you are much deeper into woodlands so I-35 North to South would give you more opportunities pushing East from the Great Plains.
JoeAlex23 wrote: 08 May 2022 05:29 i don't mind DeepGrove being the logging "monopoly" of the PNW but it has to end with Montana, would be cool to have at least another logging company up there but is not a deal breaker for me, but Texas 100% NEEDS a new logging company if they plan to add that industry to Texas, dragging DeepGrove all the way down there is not a good idea.
If Deepgrove was tied to just Washington, Oregon and Idaho, I could live wit that, but it goes beyond the PNW. Of the 11 states in the West, its in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Colorado, Wyoming and now Montana. Colorado is closer to Texas than it is Washington. Texas should be starting the 3rd Lumber company. I'm a bit concerned about company diversity in ATS though. I play the game to visit new ICCs. We keep getting the same companies repeated without enough replacing older ones. We got NAMIQ and now Mon Coeur but that's not enough. As the map grows and the base map rebuilt, we can use some thinning out of the repetitiveness.

As it stands now, we have:

[ external image ]
[ external image ]
[ external image ]
[ external image ]



Now compare that list to the just one page I'm posting for ETS2 for comparison.

[ external image ]


38 is the most that one company is getting used and that's Logistics which is understandable. ETS2 has a much larger map and yet, the top used depot is still less than double ATS's 2nd place in Plaster and Son's. What's up with Cooper? Like @harishw8r mentioned, its posted on Plaster & Sons prefabs but why? It can be a construction company. Wallbert desperately needs Target. There are Wallberts in the game now that are actually closer to Target prefabs than it is Walmart but we still get Wallbert....why? I understand there was no research team back then and SCS took shortcuts on North American companies with the lack of knowledge. But this isn't the case anymore. @Pavel should let Annie and Petr run wild and add new company logos to open up ATS. Then they need to be incorporated into a better logistics truck flow regionally, nationally and state wide. Not just nationally. I always thought the focus of the this game was the economy. ICCs should always be the focus. Everything else are pieces to the puzzle to support the economy.

The new industries coming to Montana are nice. We are getting some new companies indeed per the map editor so that will be sweet. But this Landscape company is better off being something totally different than Deepgrove and it can be used all over the US. 1 Landscape company per region would be ideal. That's only 4 landscape companies for the US alone. That works. But it being called Deepgrove too is a headscratcher and makes zero sense. Why go thru all that trouble to not make it stand out? I seriously hope it gets changed. They can't keep planting the same companies populating the US showing the lack of diversity. More and more people will start complaining that its copy paste. People won't care if there is a new prefab that was built or not. It still carries the same company name and ATS is overusing companies compared to ETS2. Too many states are getting the same company names when the US is just as diverse as Europe.

The economy needs to be replanned for ATS. If the plan is to go back and start replacing things like NAMIQ, sweet. I can applaud that. I can be patient with that mindset. But to continue to let ATS be on its current path with the talent we have with 2d concept artist onboard, their talents are being wasted. Let them help max out ATS's potential economy wise at the least. I'd fear they'd move on to another company in the future if they get board being limited. Turn them loose Pavel. I feel like they can be pitbull bulls in ATS if they are turned loose. ATS's appearance can drastically change in the environment with the concept artist we have. In the snap shots above, ATS for the most part only has 1 company per industry (category). At this stage, we need at least 2. 1/3rd of the US is about to be completed in 2022 more than likely and we simply don't have enough company diversity. The first 2 pics.....those companies are in more than 50% of the current states we can play. For a new person coming from ETS2....that would raise a red flag for me knowing that more diversity is over there but not in ATS. It gives the wrong impression that the US is repetitive in every state.
"Once you get East of I-35, things become even more wooded than the Pacific NW"

disagree all you want, but a look at google maps shows that the heavily forested area is predominantly east of 45, not 35. No way is anything east of 45 as heavily forested in Texas as the Pac NW. Now, if you're referring to the placement of industry supported by those forests, then, yes maybe that's where the mills are predominantly located, but the maps don't lie. I'd argue 45 in texas and and 44 further north are better boundaries. Living in the PAC NW, no way the area immediately east of 35 is denser, got go a bit further east. The southern forest is indeed very impressive and on scale overall, the greatest lumber producing region in the nation, though Oregon produces more softwood and board feet plywood by state than any other. the scale of forest and lumber production is just larger in land size in the south (and east really too). very impressive indeed.
"Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future" -JFK
User avatar
flight50
Posts: 30042
Joined: 20 May 2017 03:33
Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth, Tx - USA

Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1300 Post by flight50 » 08 May 2022 20:40

^I honestly don't think you're understanding anything I'm saying. Even if you go with I-45 (the blue line), its stops in Dallas. Again I did not say just Texas its clearly stated in what you quoted that I wasn't talking about just Texas, I said North and South. I-35 goes all the way up into Minnesota which is still East of I-35 which runs North and South. The entire red hatched area is wooded more than the PNW. No maps don't lie. I was also referring to harish's statement than logging is tied to the PNW. I was stating there is a lot more logging East of I-35 because I-35 runs the entire North to South stretches of the US. I-45 doesn't. There is a ton of green ahead for ATS and logging is part of that.

[ external image ]
Last edited by flight50 on 09 May 2022 16:19, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply

Return to “General discussion about the game”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 16 guests