Montana Discussion Thread

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flight50
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1681 Post by flight50 » 24 Jun 2022 19:40

oldmanclippy wrote: 24 Jun 2022 15:45 I'll update this with a more realistic concept map based on what we discussed here. The one in my signature is more so "these are the roads that are still possible based on blog screenshot evidence, not something we'll actually get in its entirety".
Oh no, please don't do that, lol. I was just tossing in my thinking, lol. I didn't mean for you to change anything. My thought is just my thought. Doesn't mean I'm right.
Bedavd wrote: 24 Jun 2022 17:34 Hey everyone. Sorry I've been pretty MIA these last few weeks. Started my first full-time lawyer job at the beginning of the month
Sweet deal man. I'm so happy for you. I know you said you were going to school for it. I didn't realize you where in the field of study already. You passed the bar already and just interning or you're in...in?
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1682 Post by Bedavd » 24 Jun 2022 21:01

Thanks Flight. Not done yet still have another year and the Bar after that. Just interning at a firm downtown but it’s keeping me very busy for now. I’ve been checking the blogs on the train and during lunches but it’s be hard getting over here for now.
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1683 Post by oldmanclippy » 24 Jun 2022 21:07

flight50 wrote: 24 Jun 2022 19:40 Oh no, please don't do that, lol. I was just tossing in my thinking, lol. I didn't mean for you to change anything. My thought is just my thought. Doesn't mean I'm right.
Oh don't worry I enjoy making these lol, and you made lots of good points.

[ external image ]

I added Beartooth Highway because honestly I could see SCS adding it for the scenic value. Plus having an entire blog dedicated to just US-89 and the little bit of US-191 remaining to map in Yellowstone sounds fishy to me.

US-310 I could still see going the way of US-287 from Fort Collins to Laramie. It's a pretty similar situation. But I think what it has going for it, is that Greybull to I-90 is a slog so US-310 will actually really improve Cody -> Billings trips, whereas US-287 wasn't that necessary to connect Fort Collins with Laramie, since Fort Collins to I-25 is easy.

Something like this map would still be quite dense and I'd be thrilled if we got it or something similar.

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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1684 Post by Carfreak200 » 24 Jun 2022 21:30

@oldmanclippy I think that map you created is basically exactly what I would suspect the map to look like. Well done!
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1685 Post by Tristman » 24 Jun 2022 21:31

I'm honestly not entirely sure about this but when looking around in the map editor, there seems to be a red icon that I think is a placeholder DLC guard for Montana/Texas?
If that's correct, you can kind of confirm which roads are going to be extended from the current map (and possibly also confirm which aren't?).

Most of the roads we already figured out by now, but two roads in the map editor I think are of particular interest. US-310 from Greybull north has this red icon, making me believe it is coming with Montana.
Likewise, ID-200 departing from Sandpoint does not have any such icon, making me think that we aren't gettting ID-200/MT-200 that far west.

Now if someone with more experience in the map editor comes around and shoots my theory down, that's entirely fair.
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1686 Post by flight50 » 24 Jun 2022 21:47

That looks good and dense for a Montana map. I'd pay more than $11.99 for that. I'd easy be okay with $13.99 if we get that. For me, I look at it like this, what are the minimum amount of roads I'd make if I was a dev to save time but still offer options to the player by avoiding backtracking:

-Missoula to Great falls. No MT-200 and we have to go South/East on I-90 to I-15 North.
-Butte to Salmon. No MT-43 and its a pain route. Going thru Missoula or Idaho Falls makes no sense.
-Yellowstone to Bozeman. SCS teased US-89. That must come now. If there are things for US-287, unfortunately I'd cut US-191. One of the US roads that is almost complete. But Montana offers other options to make US-191 irrelevant.
-Lewiston to Billings, Great Falls or Bozeman. We get to any of these without US-12 and US-191. US-89 and US-87 achieve the same. Less mapping.
-US-89 is valid from YS to Great Falls with a straight shot. US-87 links Billings an Lewiston directly. Again, US-191 is expendable.
-US-191 is only valid from MT-200 to get to US-2.
-US-87 from Great Falls to Havre makes all of US-87 valid just alike all of US-89 is valid with Montana. US-12 and US-191 can get chopped up.
-MT-59 is obvious to continue from WY-59. Gillette to Miles City and further to Glasgow. So we need MT-24. Sidney is also confirmed so Sidney to Glasgow also needs
MT-24.

The only thing I think SCS should do is add Shelby as marked. Its the Cody of Montana. I don't think 15 marked cities for Montana is too bad. In the lower 48 states, Texas is the largest and it should have 25-35 cities California is the second largest and it has like 22...at least before the rebuild. Montana is the third largest. 15 really isn't far fetched in my honest opinion. Shelby is at I-15 and US-2 which is even more prime location than Cody is. Its a cross section that SCS can't miss no matter what with all of US-2 in, so might as well mark it. There should be zero space issues.

Shelby as marked, we don't need a huge city out of it either. The population is 3100 but that means nothing. What about the industry? There is a Pilot truck stop. Can't miss that so its gets in whether marked or not. Ben Taylor off US-2 is part of the oil/gas. That is a good industry to add. Big Sky Seed right next to it is good. We don't have a seed facility but we have all this Agriculture going on in tge game and no seeds to deliver. The Fair Grounds. More livestock options here. Add that. There is Dirk's truck wash. One day, that too will get in as functional. That's a nice location for one. There is a feedlot that is also off US-2. That's part of live stock. Last is the Alberstons. We need a dedicated grocery story asap. Why we don't have several yet with Agricultural being a push, I don't know.
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The Torgo
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1687 Post by The Torgo » 25 Jun 2022 01:43

@Bedavd congratulations man!

about the map, a dense version of Montana could kill the vibe. Wyoming is on the limit, some cities are too big and not consistent with a sparsely populated state
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1688 Post by Optional Features » 25 Jun 2022 02:50

Wyoming is way too dense for the scale. It should be twice that big with all of those cities. I hope Montana won't feel that urban.
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1689 Post by rbsanford » 25 Jun 2022 03:48

I can understand cutting the 12 between Helena and Forsyth (I don't like the idea, but it makes sense), but the highway between Helena and Garrison should be in for sure. Otherwise, travel between Helena and points west will be a pain, having to detour down to Butte every time. Incidentally, that segment of the highway includes its highest point (McDonald Pass), which is also where it crosses the Great Divide. I think the 287 between I-90 and Helena is also a must.

I agree that cutting the 191 between Bozeman and West Yellowstone would be painful; I've also been down that road IRL, and Gallatin Canyon is stunning. It's certainly one of the highlights of US 191 overall, which is really saying something. Out of the three Yellowstone connectors in the area, I'd say the 287 is the least necessary for ATS. The 89 could be cut too, but since it's been confirmed, oh well. IIRC, the 191's crossing of the Yellowstone at Big Timber has been shown in a blog post, so that likely confirms the highway between I-90 and US 87.

I would also consider running the 2 as far east as Culbertson, then connecting to Sidney via the 16. There's also 200S connecting Glendive to the 200, which could come in handy.

Fears of conflicts from density are merited, but Montana is so big, that maybe it can spare some of these redundant roads. Remember that just because the road network looks tight on the 2D map doesn't necessarily mean it'll feel that way in the game. Washington is the densest state in the game so far, it looks a little janky on the UI map, but it feels so right in the game.
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Furthermore, I consider that I-80 across Nevada must be redone next.
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1690 Post by oldmanclippy » 25 Jun 2022 04:17

rbsanford wrote: 25 Jun 2022 03:48 I agree that cutting the 191 between Bozeman and West Yellowstone would be painful; I've also been down that road IRL, and Gallatin Canyon is stunning. It's certainly one of the highlights of US 191 overall, which is really saying something. Out of the three Yellowstone connectors in the area, I'd say the 287 is the least necessary for ATS. The 89 could be cut too, but since it's been confirmed, oh well. IIRC, the 191's crossing of the Yellowstone at Big Timber has been shown in a blog post, so that likely confirms the highway between I-90 and US 87.
We have US-89 crossing the Yellowstone, but I don't remember getting a screenshot of US-191 crossing it.

As far as density goes, I agree that Washington feels pretty good despite its density. Wyoming only feels too urban because the cities along I-80 are too large IMO so there's less room between them. If they can make it feel like the cities have space between them, then they can still get in density without changing the vibe too much.
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