Montana Discussion Thread

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oldmanclippy
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1821 Post by oldmanclippy » 30 Jun 2022 13:14

kostraelpayaso wrote: 30 Jun 2022 10:36 Is it normal for semi trucks in North America to access steep logging roads though? I recently changed career to forestry and here large semi trucks only enter main 'service' roads, normaly paved with gravel or similar and with relatively low steep. The bulk of the logging roads are accessed by smaller 6x6 trucks and machinery (forwarders, skidders, etc.) that have better maneuverability in unpaved narrow and steeper roads.
I was under the impression that OTR trucks typically only use service roads, and then vocational trucks like the 49X take things from there. But maybe things are handled differently depending on how rugged the terrain is. But I don't think taking a Freightliner Cascadia for example on a steep and curvy forest road is particularly realistic.

...

Some Montana-related observations I made while driving the new US-14 yesterday:

Had a Great Falls Cargo Terminal trailer pass by me on US-191 in the shadow of Grand Teton, driving SOUTH. So I guess that means he illegally drove through Yellowstone :lol: Spawning in that part of the map should probably be looked at. Must have been coming from US-26 ;)

There is no road signage here https://www.google.com/maps/@44.5680305 ... 312!8i6656 where you have to turn to keep on US-14 where it intersects the Grand Loop Road. To me that's extra confirmation that US-212 isn't coming.

Like others have said, US-14 Alt seems out of the question, and that's fine by me. Doesn't really add enough to justify its existence and the space it would take up on the map.

It's pretty crazy how Montana has snuck up on us like this. I was certain this was going to be an October DLC, but now it's looking like August, maybe even July? It's really impressive how much Davido's team of newbies has accomplished since starting Wyoming a year and a half ago. Hopefully they can stick together for the next DLC, and keep building on their rapidly growing skillset and productivity. I'd love to see them tackle Oklahoma, if that's what Pavel has in store for them.
Last edited by oldmanclippy on 30 Jun 2022 16:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1822 Post by wolfedg » 30 Jun 2022 13:53

@seriousmods I'm a keyboard player, and intend to support the game as long as it exists. I don't use the keyboard because of hardware limitations, I use it because I prefer it. The wheel (g920) is a pain to set up and take down, and if left in place makes using the computer for other things very annoying. It also put me significantly farther away from the screen making it harder to read signs and the like. Keyboard support is impotant.
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1823 Post by oldmanclippy » 30 Jun 2022 14:01

I can't imagine playing this game without at least a gamepad. I tried a wheel but I just like to sit back and relax on a comfy chair/couch rather than sitting upright to use a wheel, since i sit in an office chair all day for work. But my Steam Controller is really nice with its two extra buttons to use compared to an Xbox controller. The only time I need to get up and touch the keyboard/mouse is if I want to toggle RivaTuner on and off. Technically I could sacrifice a button on my controller to do that too if I really wanted to. I started playing ETS2 originally with KBM but I was absolutely awful at it.
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1824 Post by flight50 » 30 Jun 2022 14:07

Considering ATS is primarily an OTR experience, its makes sense that the challenges are not present. That is why I posted this awhile back. viewtopic.php?p=1496505#p1496505. For those that want a bigger challenge, it should not be a core part of the game imo. But as a dlc, its the perfect solution for vocational type applications. Its another way to bring in money. At least make one dlc featuring this to try it out to see if it takes off. The creativity could be wild. I'd make 4-5 roads at lets say $4.99 and see how it goes. Coming off Montana and Texas the bandwidth is available at that point. Be a part of the reworks team. Break off 2-3 people to create a side project like this or hire more mappers/asset people. Big Sur was a big hit. Make a quest/mission out of challenges or something like this. viewtopic.php?p=1372602#p1372602.

With the West filled in and completed, a small team can go back and edit and do whatever. Treat it like the ST routes. Once the map is done by the paid dlc's teams, routes are edited as they don't have to conflict with current people working sectors. So challenges could be cool but not in the current game mode. Its not setup to be that way as an OTR game. OTR is the focus. The new WoT worked on in the background could be more hardcore. WoT is easier to make missions/events at that point. With SCS running events, this makes challenges easier to do from their servers. I just hope they'd be repeatable and not delete like Big Sur. I'd like to go back to Big Sur from time to time but we can't. We need contract mission to be repeatable and let us choose when we play them.
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1825 Post by wolfedg » 30 Jun 2022 14:16

@flight50 They could release something akin to what 18WoS Extreme Trucker was to the 18WoS series, just with the current engine.
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1826 Post by flight50 » 30 Jun 2022 14:31

Unfortunately, I have no clue what you speak of, lol. I didn't come to know SCS until June 2016 when I bought ATS. I'll check out some Youtube though to see if there are some examples of 18 WoS Extreme.
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1827 Post by Shiva » 30 Jun 2022 14:58

Scania Truck Driving Simulator had some challenges. Not the city, but the other stuff.

Will be interesting to see if there could be places that could get off path driving, around Montana and Wyoming.
At the moment I am sadly counting out Wallace, WY. Now I am putting my hopes on St Regis.
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1828 Post by kostraelpayaso » 30 Jun 2022 16:08

They don't need to change the core concept of the game to add some more challeging, or I'd say more diverse, driving experiences though. @seriousmods has a point, narrower and curvier roads, combined with more exposed sections or obstacles can add a little more of a challenge to the task of getting the logs off the forest without getting into spin tires territory. Even if the game focuses mainly on OTR driving, there is an space where other trucking styles can fit, which at the same time could give truck customization and garages more weight. The point is, scs has included roads that climb mountains, that a regular highway truck would not likely access, so why not go a little further and make the experience more different in relation to the regular highway driving.

This mod is a good example of how logging roads can be done without the necesity of revolutionizing the mechanics of the game. Not even every road needs to be like this, service roads can be and to my experience tend to be a little wider and better paved, but diversity is key at the time of creating new challenges.
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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1829 Post by Optional Features » 30 Jun 2022 16:25

kostraelpayaso wrote: 30 Jun 2022 10:36 That's my issue with logging roads and the reason why I barely take them, and even though my company is mainly focused on timber hauling I normaly take jobs from yards close to paved roads because off road experience is very off-puting, either due to road design and the complete lack of off-roading mechanics.
SCS obviously does very little research, or they would know that these roads aren't even close to realistic. And not that they even should be about one truck wide, as many are irl, but they shouldn't be three!

Some real life pics of narrow roads (there are wider areas as the poster above me mentioned, but everything shouldn't be wide).

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Is it normal for semi trucks in North America to access steep logging roads though? I recently changed career to forestry and here large semi trucks only enter main 'service' roads, normaly paved with gravel or similar and with relatively low steep. The bulk of the logging roads are accessed by smaller 6x6 trucks and machinery (forwarders, skidders, etc.) that have better maneuverability in unpaved narrow and steeper roads.
I guess it depends what you call a semi, but yes.

In the parts of the map represented so far, there are two primary types of log trucks (the trailers scs offers in game are used in the south and sometimes for hauling logs on highways or offroad areas with plenty of room, which are incredible rare).

There's the mule train (probably half of the log trucks out west): this is possible in game, but obviously half of the combo can't hold a load with current SCS scripting.

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And there's the pole or long logger (which is about the other half): this setup is not even possible in ATS because the functionality it requires for the trailer is beyond what the game can handle.

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This one is actually from Montana, and is known as a super train (thanks to the short log trailer in the back).
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In addition, there are plenty of lowboys who bring equipment to new sites: some roads are so steep they have to be pulled in like this first pic.

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None of these trucks are 6wd, and at least in the case of the log trucks, they are driving right up to where the logs are stored (often the last few feet in reverse). Many of the roads aren't big enough for a lowboy to turn around, so they'll break the trailer down (something we can't do in game obviously), and walk the machine in.
I would love a revamp of the whole timber industry ingame, from the source to the final destination of the wood. Given a huge part of the map till this point have been based around major logging areas I think is a shame that this industry has not been properly represented ingame. Better and more dense forest road network, more local-focused deliveries and more diverse yards/depots could be an starting point.
Agreed: step one is recognizing that just about everything currently in game needs work. And then step two is starting to fix some of it.

A couple more pics for the heck of it.

A west coast log truck being unloaded:

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A chip truck getting unloaded: we have these dumpers in game, but none of them are functional.

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Re: Montana Discussion Thread

#1830 Post by oldmanclippy » 30 Jun 2022 16:36

ETS2 has some dirt roads that are pretty tight in Bulgaria and Latvia I think. And some tight paved roads in Iberia. Another example of an area that ATS could learn from ETS2.
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