ATS Truckers Need to Stretch Their Legs
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nater6540
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Re: ATS Truckers Need to Stretch Their Legs
That’s what I mean, a forklift would be controlled by the AI, while the player gets to control a pallet jack during the loading and unloading process. Although considering the AI is sometimes really bad while in traffic, I don’t think I would trust it while it’s in control of a forklift. 
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Travismods
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Re: ATS Truckers Need to Stretch Their Legs
Walk mode. Be it on the forums, in the SCS blog comments, on SCS Twitter, on the Reddit trucksim forum, on truck sim Discord groups, even on Facebook threads about ATS it keeps coming up and being requested by more and more players, over and over again. For good reason. This tiny poll as it stands today at 97 votes is obviously a tiny slice of ATS players thoughts, no doubt - but this is one poll where it is likely it does in fact indicate what the players of these games statistically want at large. 8/10 sounds about right for a feature most casual players have time and time again welcomed in other games. For the few that find any gameplay or interactivity added to the game a nuisance, there is also good news, they can be spared the ability for a walk mode by simply not using it should SCS add it, like the other features they don't want others to have.
But instead of beating the dead horse and once again going over why it makes sense with a walk mode in this game - because let's face it, we have already done that enough to verify it and just glancing at other simulators tells us it does make sense, its always universally loved - let's instead look at how hard it would be to achieve for SCS and also look at the common misconceptions that are being leveled against it as a feature.
1. "Walk mode would take time to create and I rather SCS focus on other things. I don't care for walk mode" - Walk mode is already in the game engine and would not take a lot of effort for SCS to enable. Yes, you read that right, and I am not talking about the dev cam which is activated by pressing 0. No, an actual walk mode is in the game engine already, something probably many players here did not realize. Let's take a look at the map editor, which has a feature called "Drop free camera to ground":
[ external image ]
In the map editor - which practically is the game, just launched with an -edit option to enable controls to edit the map and without a truck and traffic - one can easily select an option called "Drop camera to ground" pictured above which locks the dev camera to a fixed position. This option has three different locked height levels. The lowest option "Cabin Height" is 2.5 meters above ground which is very close in height to an actual walk mode. This very feature is sort of like a version of the developer camera many players already use to simulate a walk mode in game by pressing 0 on their keyboard - the difference being that it has a fixed height when moving, which makes it function exactly like walking around in other games. It also has working collisions for the ground (or really, the fixed height solves the ground issues) which renders it impossible for the player to fly through ground level or up towards the sky and see things he or she shouldn't see, something that the developer camera currently being used by players do not have - we can fly up, down and through everything making it difficult to control the dev camera as an actual walk mode and making the player see things SCS probably do not want us to see. Scenery of a less pretty nature.
[ external image ]
The fact that this feature already exists in the map editor and probably has existed for a while means it is not far from theoretically being implemented in game, especially seeing the game instance already supports the dev cam. Yet this editor feature is never brought up when discussing Walk mode. At this point, Walk mode, or rather "Drop camera to ground" which we may call it, will either be achieved by SCS listening to the community or by a modder finding out how to port this command over from the editor to the game themselves, for the whole community to enjoy. Remember, the editor and game share a lot of console commands, but the editor also has a lot of options one cannot access in game - naturally. SCS decide which get ported over that players will get access to.
[ external image ]
Of course, this feature still needs polishing like building collisions, adding a walking sound and a distance limit from the truck to become a perfect feature. Needless to say, there are probably a lot of players of ATS that have never opened the editor and do not know that an actual walk mode beyond the dev cam already exists in the editor instance of the running game. It's there, and it brings almost everything the walk mode we want in the game should bring, and nearly everything the dev cam is missing to work as an actual walk mode. For a distance limit from the truck, people have suggested 5-20 meters, I am sure SCS can find the right balance so we don't stray too far. Someone also mentioned traffic as an issue, but isn't an issue if the traffic simply drives through the player, which is currently the case with the dev cam.
2. "The textures and game world are not made for a walk mode. It wouldn't work, SCS would have to remake the game." A few players keep bringing this up and sadly at one point even a member from SCS brought it up. This statement shows a lack of insight into the desires of what players generally want out of simulators, and ignoring the fact that we basically already have the feature in the editor. It just needs restrictions. Players of simulators want more options to see and interact with the world, not less - and they absolutely want this at the expense of textures. This is always the case when interaction is requested in games. In fact, the more one looks into the "textures are not good enough" claim and looks at other video games that got a requested walk mode - let's take GTA V because it comes first to mind - the less sense it makes. Rockstar brought a walk mode or rather first person camera mode to a traditionally third person game GTA V with only third person textures - like ATS similarly is third person or first person in the cabin, only we are the truck. Now Rockstar brought walk mode because people wanted it and they understood people cared more about having that freedom than seeing a poor texture here and there. For Rockstar, the feature had to be done from scratch which took time and resources - whereas for SCS the feature is already largely there in the editor with the Drop camera to ground command. We aren't talking many man-hours here for SCS to port this command into the game.
Eventually, Rockstar brought a texture update to their game to make walk mode complete. Did anyone ridicule Rockstar for it, because it lacked beautiful high resolution textures up close the year before the texture update? Nope, nobody anyone ever heard of or cared about that, that's for certain. People went mad with hype for the functionality and fun it added. Rockstar weren't afraid of ridicule, they were trying to maximize satisfaction and naturally their revenue and hype around the game by adding a wanted feature they understood was worth it at the expense of some textures. But they would never ever have withheld it because of the game world not being perfectly rendered with 4K/8K textures. Similarly, SCS could first add the feature as an experimental one then sometime down the line update the textures that looked off, if even needed. The fact is that very few people have ever complained about textures when simulating walk mode with the dev cam - because they have been so busy with the fun and immersion it brings when using it, like inspecting cargo and walking around rest and truck stops. Could it be that most players probably would not care for a low res texture here and there, when given additional gameplay through an experimental feature?
3. "Players would make fun of SCS if they could see a low resolution gas pump or similar texture up close" - Now if one looks into this odd claim taken from thin air, one finds absolutely zero evidence for it in the history of features being added to any game out there whatsoever. Nothing like this has ever happened. Nowhere where this claim is made is there any evidence backing it up either from similar cases with other videogames and developers. In fact there has not been even a single instance in the history of gaming in which a developer added a camera mode as an experimental feature, explained to players that it was not perfect texture wise but that it was functional and was more focused on gameplay and not graphics - and they instead of loving it bashed and ridiculed the developer. This would be absurd, and an unnecessary worry both for the community and SCS to have. There is no basis in reality for this claim, yet it is being brought up over and over again, even though it has never happened. Going by how other developers have been met when adding this feature, the reaction would likely be quite different, in that ATS players would rejoice in the immersion this added to the game and praise SCS for bringing it.
So there you have it. It's uncertain to tell just how many, but browsing the trucksim web and not just the small hub of these forums, it is clear that many ATS players (and ETS2 players) want a walk mode. It is also clear that tens of thousands of players and youtubers currently already use walk mode with the dev cam, the problems with the dev cam being it is missing a fixed height and having collisions enabled so the player don't end up seeing or going where he or she is not supposed to. These problems are more or less solved if players could access the feature "Drop/Snap to ground" already available in the editor. If its accessible in editor, its working in engine, and can be enabled by SCS to work with, as a start, an experimental feature command - only to then be completed as an official feature.
There will always be the people out there that still keep coming up with excuses as to why something as universal in games/simulators as a walk mode should not be added, they don't like interactivity, they don't play the game much, they don't like to see optional things others like. Walk mode is, by looking at the map editor, not far from existing as a command and a large group of players according to the internet and polls would find immense joy in it - even at the expense of a low resolution pump texture. Initially, walk mode does not really have to be much more than what the Drop to Ground feature does - interactivity with the truck and trailer while being outside and sound effects or head bobbing could be added later on. It only really needs full collisions - which are already enabled by default when playing the game so thats already taken care of too - as well as a limited distance from the truck. That's it. Let us at least use what functionality many people want and what already exists as a feature in the editor and game engine. We aren't far off from having it and clearly many people want it. And with that being said, I rest my case.
[ external image ]
But instead of beating the dead horse and once again going over why it makes sense with a walk mode in this game - because let's face it, we have already done that enough to verify it and just glancing at other simulators tells us it does make sense, its always universally loved - let's instead look at how hard it would be to achieve for SCS and also look at the common misconceptions that are being leveled against it as a feature.
1. "Walk mode would take time to create and I rather SCS focus on other things. I don't care for walk mode" - Walk mode is already in the game engine and would not take a lot of effort for SCS to enable. Yes, you read that right, and I am not talking about the dev cam which is activated by pressing 0. No, an actual walk mode is in the game engine already, something probably many players here did not realize. Let's take a look at the map editor, which has a feature called "Drop free camera to ground":
[ external image ]
In the map editor - which practically is the game, just launched with an -edit option to enable controls to edit the map and without a truck and traffic - one can easily select an option called "Drop camera to ground" pictured above which locks the dev camera to a fixed position. This option has three different locked height levels. The lowest option "Cabin Height" is 2.5 meters above ground which is very close in height to an actual walk mode. This very feature is sort of like a version of the developer camera many players already use to simulate a walk mode in game by pressing 0 on their keyboard - the difference being that it has a fixed height when moving, which makes it function exactly like walking around in other games. It also has working collisions for the ground (or really, the fixed height solves the ground issues) which renders it impossible for the player to fly through ground level or up towards the sky and see things he or she shouldn't see, something that the developer camera currently being used by players do not have - we can fly up, down and through everything making it difficult to control the dev camera as an actual walk mode and making the player see things SCS probably do not want us to see. Scenery of a less pretty nature.
[ external image ]
The fact that this feature already exists in the map editor and probably has existed for a while means it is not far from theoretically being implemented in game, especially seeing the game instance already supports the dev cam. Yet this editor feature is never brought up when discussing Walk mode. At this point, Walk mode, or rather "Drop camera to ground" which we may call it, will either be achieved by SCS listening to the community or by a modder finding out how to port this command over from the editor to the game themselves, for the whole community to enjoy. Remember, the editor and game share a lot of console commands, but the editor also has a lot of options one cannot access in game - naturally. SCS decide which get ported over that players will get access to.
[ external image ]
Of course, this feature still needs polishing like building collisions, adding a walking sound and a distance limit from the truck to become a perfect feature. Needless to say, there are probably a lot of players of ATS that have never opened the editor and do not know that an actual walk mode beyond the dev cam already exists in the editor instance of the running game. It's there, and it brings almost everything the walk mode we want in the game should bring, and nearly everything the dev cam is missing to work as an actual walk mode. For a distance limit from the truck, people have suggested 5-20 meters, I am sure SCS can find the right balance so we don't stray too far. Someone also mentioned traffic as an issue, but isn't an issue if the traffic simply drives through the player, which is currently the case with the dev cam.
2. "The textures and game world are not made for a walk mode. It wouldn't work, SCS would have to remake the game." A few players keep bringing this up and sadly at one point even a member from SCS brought it up. This statement shows a lack of insight into the desires of what players generally want out of simulators, and ignoring the fact that we basically already have the feature in the editor. It just needs restrictions. Players of simulators want more options to see and interact with the world, not less - and they absolutely want this at the expense of textures. This is always the case when interaction is requested in games. In fact, the more one looks into the "textures are not good enough" claim and looks at other video games that got a requested walk mode - let's take GTA V because it comes first to mind - the less sense it makes. Rockstar brought a walk mode or rather first person camera mode to a traditionally third person game GTA V with only third person textures - like ATS similarly is third person or first person in the cabin, only we are the truck. Now Rockstar brought walk mode because people wanted it and they understood people cared more about having that freedom than seeing a poor texture here and there. For Rockstar, the feature had to be done from scratch which took time and resources - whereas for SCS the feature is already largely there in the editor with the Drop camera to ground command. We aren't talking many man-hours here for SCS to port this command into the game.
Eventually, Rockstar brought a texture update to their game to make walk mode complete. Did anyone ridicule Rockstar for it, because it lacked beautiful high resolution textures up close the year before the texture update? Nope, nobody anyone ever heard of or cared about that, that's for certain. People went mad with hype for the functionality and fun it added. Rockstar weren't afraid of ridicule, they were trying to maximize satisfaction and naturally their revenue and hype around the game by adding a wanted feature they understood was worth it at the expense of some textures. But they would never ever have withheld it because of the game world not being perfectly rendered with 4K/8K textures. Similarly, SCS could first add the feature as an experimental one then sometime down the line update the textures that looked off, if even needed. The fact is that very few people have ever complained about textures when simulating walk mode with the dev cam - because they have been so busy with the fun and immersion it brings when using it, like inspecting cargo and walking around rest and truck stops. Could it be that most players probably would not care for a low res texture here and there, when given additional gameplay through an experimental feature?
3. "Players would make fun of SCS if they could see a low resolution gas pump or similar texture up close" - Now if one looks into this odd claim taken from thin air, one finds absolutely zero evidence for it in the history of features being added to any game out there whatsoever. Nothing like this has ever happened. Nowhere where this claim is made is there any evidence backing it up either from similar cases with other videogames and developers. In fact there has not been even a single instance in the history of gaming in which a developer added a camera mode as an experimental feature, explained to players that it was not perfect texture wise but that it was functional and was more focused on gameplay and not graphics - and they instead of loving it bashed and ridiculed the developer. This would be absurd, and an unnecessary worry both for the community and SCS to have. There is no basis in reality for this claim, yet it is being brought up over and over again, even though it has never happened. Going by how other developers have been met when adding this feature, the reaction would likely be quite different, in that ATS players would rejoice in the immersion this added to the game and praise SCS for bringing it.
So there you have it. It's uncertain to tell just how many, but browsing the trucksim web and not just the small hub of these forums, it is clear that many ATS players (and ETS2 players) want a walk mode. It is also clear that tens of thousands of players and youtubers currently already use walk mode with the dev cam, the problems with the dev cam being it is missing a fixed height and having collisions enabled so the player don't end up seeing or going where he or she is not supposed to. These problems are more or less solved if players could access the feature "Drop/Snap to ground" already available in the editor. If its accessible in editor, its working in engine, and can be enabled by SCS to work with, as a start, an experimental feature command - only to then be completed as an official feature.
There will always be the people out there that still keep coming up with excuses as to why something as universal in games/simulators as a walk mode should not be added, they don't like interactivity, they don't play the game much, they don't like to see optional things others like. Walk mode is, by looking at the map editor, not far from existing as a command and a large group of players according to the internet and polls would find immense joy in it - even at the expense of a low resolution pump texture. Initially, walk mode does not really have to be much more than what the Drop to Ground feature does - interactivity with the truck and trailer while being outside and sound effects or head bobbing could be added later on. It only really needs full collisions - which are already enabled by default when playing the game so thats already taken care of too - as well as a limited distance from the truck. That's it. Let us at least use what functionality many people want and what already exists as a feature in the editor and game engine. We aren't far off from having it and clearly many people want it. And with that being said, I rest my case.
[ external image ]
Last edited by Travismods on 28 Jul 2022 18:33, edited 10 times in total.
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Optional Features
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Re: ATS Truckers Need to Stretch Their Legs
@koolizz Fascinating that such a thing exists in the back end: hopefully someone figures how to implement it soon.
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Optional Features
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Re: ATS Truckers Need to Stretch Their Legs
It appears two mobile trucking games have/will implement(ed) a walk mode in their gameplay.
The first is Truck Simulator Pro USA. Here's a preview of grain handling in game. Players can connect hoses and possibly raise landing gear while on foot, open tarps, and load crop into their grain trailers. Then, once at the delivery site, players can unload, again on foot. There's even a basic particle system to simulate product going into and out of the hopper. While the map looks low quality, and it has poor graphics, the attention to detail with this simple showcase is something to respect.
The second game is Truckers of Europe 3 which I have mentioned previously here. One of the interesting features of their walk mode is the game's teleport feature which moves the player camera back to the vehicle if the player strays too far in walk mode. This seems like a reasonable alternative to the bounding box some have suggested for ATS.
If mobile games made by solo or small teams of devs can pull off a more hands on trucking experience, SCS with its infinitely larger team and pool of resources should be able to do the same.
The first is Truck Simulator Pro USA. Here's a preview of grain handling in game. Players can connect hoses and possibly raise landing gear while on foot, open tarps, and load crop into their grain trailers. Then, once at the delivery site, players can unload, again on foot. There's even a basic particle system to simulate product going into and out of the hopper. While the map looks low quality, and it has poor graphics, the attention to detail with this simple showcase is something to respect.
The second game is Truckers of Europe 3 which I have mentioned previously here. One of the interesting features of their walk mode is the game's teleport feature which moves the player camera back to the vehicle if the player strays too far in walk mode. This seems like a reasonable alternative to the bounding box some have suggested for ATS.
If mobile games made by solo or small teams of devs can pull off a more hands on trucking experience, SCS with its infinitely larger team and pool of resources should be able to do the same.
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NIKKUKUNNU149
- Posts: 34
- Joined: 26 Jul 2022 06:37
Re: ATS Truckers Need to Stretch Their Legs
Great Idea bro. really want to see this feature in the game.
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DarkD92
- Posts: 188
- Joined: 29 Aug 2021 21:45
Re: ATS Truckers Need to Stretch Their Legs
There will be an innovation that will level up the game.
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Optional Features
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Re: ATS Truckers Need to Stretch Their Legs
Hopefully soon!
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soupflakes
- Posts: 5
- Joined: 18 Sep 2018 14:18
Re: ATS Truckers Need to Stretch Their Legs
I'm sure it's been said before, but you can run clear around the entire map in Farm Sim games, and no one thinks it's a "walking simulator" I truly think if Farm sim can do it, ATS should have no problem incorporating it. Shoot, there are some mods on Farm Sim that are so intricate you actually have to get out and connect each individual hydraulic line and the pto and electrical lines before it will operate.
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Vk56dehan
- Posts: 204
- Joined: 10 Aug 2017 20:04
- Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Re: ATS Truckers Need to Stretch Their Legs
I think if it was a controlled feature it could work. Yes they might need to update some textures on say, gas pumps and stuff. Walk/interaction mode could be limited to just truck stops, drop off/pickup locations and within X feet of the truck that would load into a higher poly/texture when walkmode was selected. That way people are not running to places they "shouldn't". Place some interaction buttons (kinda like tsw2) to hook up air lines or pump gas etc, utilizing cutscreen animations where needed. Same with loading unloading.....i just dont see full control of everything ever being a option in this game. This could be the compromise Idk?
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