Which area in ETS2 should be reworked next ?

Which are should be reworked next ??

United Kingdom
55
20%
BeNeLux
160
58%
Poland
30
11%
Hungary
16
6%
Slovakia
3
1%
Czech Republic
14
5%
 
Total votes: 278

Some newbie driver
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Re: Which area should be reworked ?

#351 Post by Some newbie driver » 02 May 2022 21:33

@pigbrother so, one can say that the UK is good for your health or bad for your habits? :P

@oldmanclippy in fact there's no technical reason to have to do 1:19 in a single shot. There's ways to bend the space on the 3D world; we should remember it's an imaginary world, don't have to follow rules of physics. And, although it would be an overkill to program the code necessary for it "just" for a rework; I would like to see that kind of "space cheating" as a tool in the arsenal of the game. Because then it would mean they could insert at will zones at bigger scales intertwined in the middle of the map. Go imagine what this could mean to really depict big cities. That the map scale could completely change if we were entering some city through specific points leading us to way bigger industrial zones that had not the current constrains of share the same 1:19 map. People only thing in more countries to be mapped as a future for DLC; they don't consider all what it has been left to do in current map due the limitations of the engine.

@dsf.fernando 1:10 scale is (rounded) half the size in linear terms. But the map is a plain surface, so it grows in both dimensions. So, the surface available on 1:10 is almost 4 times the one available to map in 1:19. Of course, that's not an open world map, we move only on corridors. But there's no point into do such a change in scale just to left it empty. Longer routes alone are pointless, you are going to drive for X hours wether yo cross the whole continent or just half of it (and lot of people play not for specific goals but search for goals in the time they have to play). So, to keep the current density of roads the work on mapping would be at least 3 times the current one for a 1:10 scale. Plus they will have to start mapping lots of secondary roads, more twisted, more complicated and harder to get proper documentation about in several countries.

Regards
Trucker Nik
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Re: Which area should be reworked ?

#352 Post by Trucker Nik » 03 May 2022 15:37

@krmarci The Carpathians and the High Tatras would need to be reworked to look like the Austrian Alps, but I am from Slovakia but I did not choose my country because the basic map must be reworked first, then Going East, and finally Scandinavia
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oldmanclippy
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Re: Which area should be reworked ?

#353 Post by oldmanclippy » 03 May 2022 15:47

Some newbie driver wrote: 02 May 2022 21:33 @oldmanclippy in fact there's no technical reason to have to do 1:19 in a single shot. There's ways to bend the space on the 3D world; we should remember it's an imaginary world, don't have to follow rules of physics. And, although it would be an overkill to program the code necessary for it "just" for a rework; I would like to see that kind of "space cheating" as a tool in the arsenal of the game. Because then it would mean they could insert at will zones at bigger scales intertwined in the middle of the map. Go imagine what this could mean to really depict big cities. That the map scale could completely change if we were entering some city through specific points leading us to way bigger industrial zones that had not the current constrains of share the same 1:19 map. People only thing in more countries to be mapped as a future for DLC; they don't consider all what it has been left to do in current map due the limitations of the engine.
I agree. The map being confined to a 1:19 representation of Europe is SCS's self-imposed limitation. Yes technically cities are 1:3, but the space constraints imposed by the 1:19 map of europe with borders that underlies the entire map limits what they can do when they want specific parts of the game to be represented at a bigger scale. I think what they could have done from the beginning was make the europe map underneath the game map be something like 1:10 or 1:15, but still have freeways between marked cities be at 1:15 or 1:19/1:20 respectively, with cities themselves taking up much more room on the map. So the distance between Lisbon and St Petersburg would be more like 1:10 or 1:15, but the distance between the outskirts of Lisbon and the outskirts of Coimbra could be 1:15 or 1:19/1:20. The map would be more of a hybrid scale like you say, and wouldn't require any engine trickery because the background map would be built with dynamic scales in mind.

Here's an example with Leon and Burgos in Spain:

[ external image ]

With a statically provisioned dynamic scale system (idk what else to call it), we would have the following distances translated to IRL kilometers:

a) Leon at 1:3, 5.1km wide IRL, 1.7km wide in-game
b) Burgos at 1:3, 17km wide IRL, 5.67km wide in-game
c) Leon eastern outskirts to Burgos western outskirts at 1:19, 160km IRL, 8.42km in-game
d) Leon western outskirts to Burgos eastern outskirts at a mix of 1:3 and 1:19, 182.1km IRL, 1.7+5.67+8.42 = 15.79km in-game

The only difference between this system and the current system, is that that d) in the current system has to fit in a single 1:19 area, i.e. 182.1/19 = 9.58km in-game (well, sort of, as there's also room on the west side of Leon and on the east side of Burgos, but the difference is still there). So they can still do the cities at 1:3, but they have to sacrifice the distance between the cities in order to do it. This is why for example we run into issues where Dallas and Ft. Worth are separated IRL by over 10 miles of suburbs, but in-game in order to get those cities to be more than 0.5 miles apart, Ft Worth has to go west and Dallas has to go east, which cuts into the distances to the nearest cities in those directions. In a statically provisioned dynamic scale, they can have a 1:3 city without cutting into the 1:19 distance between the cities.
blog screenshot IRL maps: Greece | Nordic Horizons | see profile for link to Germany cities and Switzerland rework maps
prediction maps: Greece | ATS 2024-2025 DLCs
research map: Upper Midwest (work in progress)
Double M
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Re: Which area should be reworked ?

#354 Post by Double M » 03 May 2022 16:45

I would love for the next area to be renewed to be Switzerland and then Benelux. Although I wouldn't mind if it was Benelux first and then Switzerland.

With respect to the UK, it is because it is a fairly large area and they want to do it in a single update. It is likely that they currently have a small team or individual working on the UK renovation and perhaps have been for some time. Maybe we can get it in late 2023 or early 2024. It all depends on the size of the team and the planning they have themselves. But what I have mentioned is only my opinion, pure speculation.

A good idea is that there are two teams in charge of renovating the old areas of the map. One could handle the basemap and the other the Going east DLC. In this way, the reconstruction of the old areas would be completed more quickly.
Some newbie driver
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Re: Which area should be reworked ?

#355 Post by Some newbie driver » 03 May 2022 16:47

Well, more than dynamic scale, that could be a nightmare to map and control, I was thinking into "multi-dimensions". The game can have the actual static base 1:19 map in which we advance and it keeps loading sector after sector. But if we take some roads (for example, but there's more options, entering towards a city); instead of load the next sector of the base main map, it could be load another completely different sector that would be our entrance to "another dimension" where that city could be mapped not only at higher scale, but also without any constrain of their neighbor cities.

Is like if we were looking to a classic road map in paper and we would move from the general roads map to another page with a detailed streets map. The engine can load sector after sector smoothly already, we don't notice that. It's "just" a matter of break the simple 2D contiguous space and link "parallel dimensions" to the main map through specific entry/exit points. But that "just" is an enormous amount of work to do it well and not screw anything else. From the navigation system to the AI to the map UI. And regarding any 3D asset located in the game world, where they have 3 global coordinates (or I suppose so) as the world is contiguous; then everything should had to change a 4 coordinates (the 4th being in what "parallel dimension" is it located). So, it will affect also every save game that should had to be converted.

Not something we would see soon, if ever. But a very real option for a future in which the most interesting places would already be mapped.

Regards
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oldmanclippy
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Re: Which area should be reworked ?

#356 Post by oldmanclippy » 03 May 2022 20:08

@Some newbie driver I suppose I didn't explain myself very well. What I mean, is that the entire map would be more like 1:15 (the example I gave with Leon and Burgos would be about 1:11 or 1:12), with the roads between marked cities being represented at 1:19 within the 1:15 worldspace, and the cities represented at 1:3 within the 1:15 worldspace. So it would be very similar to what we have now, which is the roads between marked cities are represented at 1:19 within the 1:19 worldspace, and the cities are represented at 1:3 within the 1:19 worldspace. So no trickery would have been required. The timescale could have been the same as it is now, 1:19 on most roads and 1:3 in cities, with 1:16 when Convoy is active.

I think the mistake that SCS made in the beginning, was making the worldspace scale the same as the road representation scale. The worldspace should have been larger to accomodate the larger scale of cities.

The only difference would be larger cities and more room for roads in between cities that are close together. Not much difference for cities that are separated by a long road and no other marked city in between, such as Montpellier and Barcelona, but a lot of difference for say Valencia and Villareal.
blog screenshot IRL maps: Greece | Nordic Horizons | see profile for link to Germany cities and Switzerland rework maps
prediction maps: Greece | ATS 2024-2025 DLCs
research map: Upper Midwest (work in progress)
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dsf.fernando
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Re: Which area should be reworked ?

#357 Post by dsf.fernando » 03 May 2022 21:26

And what about unmarked villages in minor roads? In which scxale would they be represented?
Proud student of Games and Multimedia in the Polytechnic of Leiria - the Portuguese capital of game development
(and still hopeful the city will feature in the game with a garage someday)
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oldmanclippy
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Re: Which area should be reworked ?

#358 Post by oldmanclippy » 03 May 2022 22:08

@dsf.fernando Probably 1:3 as well. The problem with the system I've described is that it would result in a really warped road layout. Roads like A-7/AP-7 in Spain that have lots of cities will be comparatively much longer than A-66 for example which would be comparatively shorter. It's a big tradeoff and a moot one at that, it would require a complete rework so the ship has long since sailed.
blog screenshot IRL maps: Greece | Nordic Horizons | see profile for link to Germany cities and Switzerland rework maps
prediction maps: Greece | ATS 2024-2025 DLCs
research map: Upper Midwest (work in progress)
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dsf.fernando
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Re: Which area should be reworked ?

#359 Post by dsf.fernando » 03 May 2022 22:36

I see the problem would be even worse with Portuguese roads
Proud student of Games and Multimedia in the Polytechnic of Leiria - the Portuguese capital of game development
(and still hopeful the city will feature in the game with a garage someday)
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Rasp91
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Re: Which area should be reworked ?

#360 Post by Rasp91 » 12 May 2022 00:02

As a citizen of the Czech Republic, I am clear about that. And since SCS is from the Czech Republic, I don't understand why Austria came out first? Because the community wanted it? I will pray for the Czech Republic, but I am probably naive.

PS: google translator, sorry.
I use google translator 🇨🇿🇺🇸
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