SCS General Discussion Thread

JaDaKa
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#17911 Post by JaDaKa » 03 Jul 2022 08:44

seriousmods wrote: 03 Jul 2022 08:15 ...
First pic is not good. The trees look bad.
Third pic the clouds are bad as well.
And the last bunch of pics you posted are horrible, very bad identical trees side by side then the ground textures with the spilled oil are extremely bad - cartooney.
That would be ok for 2010 not 2022.

Visually balance-wise there is no comparison between the two. What people achieve through mods is a different story however things like the lighting, sky and clouds are not fixable by any mod.
Similarly there are graphics improvement mods for ets2 as well.

Building your own farm makes sense. A farm constitutes of so many buildings; has animals, sheds, silos, pits, tanks and a garage.

A garage is one building hence why it doesn't make much sense to be able to "build a garage". It is a garage. And how many times do we visit it in ETS? I don't too often tbh.

Next about the trailer. You want to be able to attach things? When do truck drivers get to choose what are they going to transport. Their job is to attach a trailer whatever it has on it and take it to its destination.
In Farming Sim it makes sense as you are actually using the cargo which could be a tractor, a combine harvester, implements etc. We are using these ingame, they are not decorative.

So all this should sum up to a suggestion of "I want more types of cargo in-game" which is nothing new and has been stated in here.

You are asking for things that are just totally unfit about the Trucking Sim branch. Every single person in here has been saying you the same thing tens and tens of times and you still insist.
Even if some of the things you wish for did make sense - which some could in some way like personalizing a bit the garages, having customizable design, name outside etc - would take so much time away from other critical sides of the game that ETS playerbase appreciates a lot more and hindered its progress - which by the looks of it, is on the right direction.
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SabR
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#17912 Post by SabR » 03 Jul 2022 09:02

oldmanclippy wrote: 02 Jul 2022 17:05 I fall somewhere in the middle between being satisfied and unsatisfied. SCS has the talent, passion, and skill to keep upping their game with map and truck design. But it's undeniable that industries, companies, and cargo have fallen behind in ATS compared to ETS2 ever since Oregon. Montana is finally addressing that, but for a long time the only thing we got was more maps and more trucks. More of the same can be good when the same is good, which it is.
It is my guess that a good number of people on the forum including myself feel the same as you on the satisfaction index. Nobody would deny the issues you have raised.
The foundation of ETS2 and ATS is rock solid and there's a reason why every other simulation game gets compared to ETS2 and ATS when people complain about those games. Go read steam reviews for any simulation game and you'll find people complaining that the quality is low compared to SCS games. But more of the same combined with more of the new is much better.
Thank YOU :)
This is exactly what I was trying to explain to seriousmods. SCS started API upgrades from DX9 to DX11 a few years back. Since last year or so they started on DX12. Once these major upgrades are over & SCS are happy with the end result, whichever gameplay features were dependent on these upgrades would get realized. Might too open up more possibilities.

The potential that these games have to be even better is what keeps people like seriousmods passionate about making the games better. You think they'd criticize the games so much if they didn't love them? You can love something and still want it to be better, especially when you know it can be better. SCS has proven that they have what it takes to take the games to the next level, but they haven't made that jump yet. And there's nothing publicly announced that would take them to the next level, so it's understandable that when some people say "just wait, be patient, there will be improvements", others get frustrated because the evidence is lacking.
To the point of making the games better, like many, seriousmods too has put some good ideas on the table for SCS to consider (last I recall is of cargoes & feedback from roads). If you'll see my first post addressing him a couple of months back, you'll read how I too, thought of him as a passionate player. But that opinion of him soon changed when he adopted the path of bashing SCS alongwith that other fellow & that is the only issue I have with him, consistent bashing of SCS. I would get labelled as SCS fanboy now, but that's the easy way out of a discussion for these folks. Constructive criticism is good for every product but what these folks are doing are poles apart.

Another point that others & myself tried to explain was, SCS use to be far too open with their community back in the early days of ETS2. Some project setbacks & backlash from the community on the same, made them cautious & as a result, today we don't see much news coming out from SCS until they are dead certain of the (features/vehicles/etc.) launch. We ourselves are to blame for this draught. We broke the pipeline.

Yes, 2012 ETS2 to 2022 ETS2 and 2016 ATS to 2022 ATS are big improvements in terms of maps, visuals, and trucks. I can only speak to 2015 ETS2 since that's when I started, but by and large the gameplay is fundamentally the same in 2022. Game changing improvements have been few and far between. And that's OK if that's what SCS is going for, but if people are looking for the game changers then you can't blame them for getting frustrated when those game changers don't come.
I disagree on the underlined point & I might get labelled again for saying this but who cares. Until some one from SCS clearly states this as their stand, I would still like to believe that SCS's vision of ETS2 & ATS is far beyond just maps & trucks-n-trailers. Gameplay features are coming in small patches (rain sensor, ACC, etc). We just might have to wait a bit longer for the bigger ones to arrive.

I also think it's just as counterproductive to make excuses for why SCS "can't" do something, as it is for people to make unreasonable complaints. Almost any improvement *can* be made, it's just whether or not SCS is willing to put the time and resources towards making it happen. And part of that calculus is figuring out how many people would want that improvement, to the point where it would make them spend more money on DLCs in the future as a result of getting said improvement. In order for SCS to have that information, people have to be vocal about it. Why do these forums exist if not for feedback and discussion? It doesn't help SCS or the community for us to just sit around and exclusively talk about the things we like about the games. I could talk about that for hours and hours on end because there's so many things I like about the games, but that doesn't produce results. SCS was gonna leave out Yellowstone, so the community got vocal and SCS added it before release and finished it off with 1.45. ATS hasn't gotten many new industries, companies, or cargo since Oregon, so the community has steadily gotten more vocal about it and now SCS is adding more companies and industries with Montana. SCS reads and listens to feedback clearly, employees are on here all the time and they do care and want to make the game better. They can't do that if we don't tell them what we want. Yes, sometimes that can get annoying to hear the same complaints over and over again from some people, but at the end of the day those people are making those complaints because they care deeply about the games and want them to improve. Otherwise they wouldn't be here day in and day out talking about the games.
When you put it like that, the whole picture, totally agree! Sometimes the community needs to use "loud speakers" :mrgreen: to get a certain wish done, but using this medium all the time is just creating nuisance. You'll (in general) lose more than you gain.

Me, I want improvements that make the world feel more alive and real. Variable traffic, variable road conditions, inclement weather, LTL/multidrop, those would all be game changers. I couldn't care less about getting out of the truck and doing tedious inspections and preparations, or pushing buttons with the mouse/camera, etc. If it increases tedium, I don't want it. But some do, and those features could be optional so people like me wouldn't have to deal with them. But you've gotta be vocal about what you want so that SCS can try to read the temperature of the community and see what would make the most sense to add to the games next.
I want 'em all :D but I'd still be happy if we get some of 'em if not all.
Cheers to being vocal, to having a healthy discussion, but hitting under the belt is a big no-no.
DarkD92
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#17913 Post by DarkD92 » 03 Jul 2022 09:03

Wow pics are awesome.I like your mods looks realistic.

But Fs hasn't improved physics in years. Vehicles are like logs.
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#17914 Post by Optional Features » 03 Jul 2022 09:06

JaDaKa wrote: 03 Jul 2022 08:44 First pic is not good. The trees look bad.
Third pic the clouds are bad as well.
And the last bunch of pics you posted are horrible, very bad identical trees side by side then the ground textures with the spilled oil are extremely bad - cartooney.
That would be ok for 2010 not 2022.

Visually balance-wise there is no comparison between the two. What people achieve through mods is a different story however things like the lighting, sky and clouds are not fixable by any mod.
Similarly there are graphics improvement mods for ets2 as well.
Again, as I said, people don't play FS for graphics. It's never been a top-tier game graphically, and likely never will be. But the abundance of things to do and the many directions the game can go make gameplay far more intriguing. It's not the same thing every time.
Building your own farm makes sense. A farm constitutes of so many buildings; has animals, sheds, silos, pits, tanks and a garage.

A garage is one building hence why it doesn't make much sense to be able to "build a garage". It is a garage. And how many times do we visit it in ETS? I don't too often tbh.
Except at least in America, the concept of a truck garage doesn't really exist. Companies don't purchase a five-bay shop to house five trucks, then leave four bays permanently empty as SCS does. Trucking companies either operate a yard (which is a much larger piece of property with room for trailers to park and likely a small truck shop) or they run a terminal. And many trucking companies so to speak are businesses of their own with trucks purchased to assist in the business.

As such, yards, terminals, and companies differ greatly from each other irl, which is something the game doesn't support. I know I'm not the only person playing this game who would like to use the insane amounts of money easily earned while playing to buy a piece of property and upfit for my company's unique needs. The one size fits all property approach SCS has implemented is incredibly boring. A log trucking firm and a fuel tanker company will not have identical yards.
Next about the trailer. You want to be able to attach things? When do truck drivers get to choose what are they going to transport. Their job is to attach a trailer whatever it has on it and take it to its destination.
Um, you must have never heard of a load board? Truckers do exactly that: they choose a load on said board, take their truck and trailer to the place, and either load it themselves (something like a machine) or are loaded by a machine/people.

Drop and hook freight like what is represented in game is not the standard for a wide swath of the American trucking industry. It is way overrepresented in game.

Watch some YouTube truckers, and you'll see what I mean.
In Farming Sim it makes sense as you are actually using the cargo which could be a tractor, a combine harvester, implements etc. We are using these ingame, they are not decorative.

So all this should sum up to a suggestion of "I want more types of cargo in-game" which is nothing new and has been stated in here.
Wanting more cargo is only part of it. The problem is the cargo system, which ties cargo and trailer together as one thing. People irl haul grain, potatoes, and hay in dry vans. That'll never be represented in game, definitely not by SCS.

In FS, a dry van is just a space to fill. The player can haul whatever he or she desires in that space. With the addition of a fill plane, bulk cargo would be possible as well.

And for driveable stuff, yes much of it is functional in FS, but buldozers are not a part of the default game. Yet they can be driven on a trailer realistically just like anything else. Manual cargo loading of something like a dozer would be amazing in a game designed for freight transportation. Backing said dozer up to a warehouse dock and pressing E, enter is not a realistic representation of unloading. At least being able to separate the trailer, then press a key to unload would be slightly better.
You are asking for things that are just totally unfit about the Trucking Sim branch. Every single person in here has been saying you the same thing tens and tens of times and you still insist.
That is your opinion, and I have provided information above that disputes it. You can also look at my signature for pics of some realistic trucking facilities in the US, which do not mimic SCS copy-paste garages.
Even if some of the things you wish for did make sense - which some could in some way like personalizing a bit the garages, having customizable design, name outside etc - would take so much time away from other critical sides of the game that ETS playerbase appreciates a lot more.
Again, that is your opinion. Maybe you want a copy paste garage or drop and hook freight, but many players want more.

And as I said in my post, SCS doesn't have to produce these things, but they could remove restrictions within the game code (like the single attacher restriction) to make them possible.
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#17915 Post by Optional Features » 03 Jul 2022 09:13

DarkD92 wrote: 03 Jul 2022 09:03 Wow pics are awesome.I like your mods looks realistic.

But Fs hasn't improved physics in years. Vehicles are like logs.
Thanks!

I agree, which is why I am hoping for more from this game. A more diverse gameplay experience from SCS games would encourage me and others I know to play FS less and ATS more.

But after successfully delivering mountains of invisible cargo for years, SCS games have gotten boring.

For these pics specifically, I would love to realistically load and haul chips in ATS. In fact, the truck dumper model that is animated in these photos was made by SCS and converted to FS.

[ external image ]
[ external image ]
[ external image ]

Instead, like all other cargo in game, I back to a dock, and press E, enter.

[ external image ]
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abasstreppas
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#17916 Post by abasstreppas » 03 Jul 2022 09:25

@seriousmods jeez man, you need to stop. Otherwise you'll end up with a tail on your back, like most trolls have. We all know your point, just stop repeating it over and over again. Please ;)
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Wolfi
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#17917 Post by Wolfi » 03 Jul 2022 09:33

abasstreppas wrote: 03 Jul 2022 09:25 We all know your point
Are you sure we do?
I think just to be safe he should repeat it at least 100 more times :P
At least it will keep him busy while he's not playing Farm Sim, which apparently is an amazing game...
The smallest details always make the biggest difference.
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SimulatorSam
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#17918 Post by SimulatorSam » 03 Jul 2022 09:44

festmache wrote: 03 Jul 2022 07:58[…] What I really don't like, is the fierce tone of the debate. […]
Couldn't really say it any better than your post, it's sad to say but it feels quite miserable to come here. And it's not even really a debate since there's no dialogue. Everyone agrees that parts of the simulation could be better but apparently you're not aloud to discuss why it's not in the game yet, how development roadmaps are, how businesses are ran - Oh by the way these features should have been implemented yesterday etc etc. It's not like SCS doesn't KNOW already that there's aspects not fully complete.

In terms of "debate", it usually goes something like this:

1: Person A:
*talks about x*

2: Person B, C, D etc:
*replying to A, discussing x*

3: Person A:
*talks about y, completely ignoring the replies/changes subject - NO dialogue or actual conversation!*

*repeat*

-

To give my two cents - my pure speculation - A lot of things changed in the game are behind the scenes and not obvious to the player, and there's been lots of ongoing work for years. Namely, multi-core and Vulkan/DX12. Let's also not forget Convoy, that must've been a big feature to implement, especially writing everything again to sync with other players etc. Once some of these bigger tasks are "done" (they're never done, always ongoing but anyway), we'll see more features and perhaps more time being worked on simulation aspects. Or physics, or AI, or just anything that these behind the scenes improvements would give SCS the power to now change.
Optional Features
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#17919 Post by Optional Features » 03 Jul 2022 09:45

abasstreppas wrote: 03 Jul 2022 09:25 @seriousmods jeez man, you need to stop. Otherwise you'll end up with a tail on your back, like most trolls have. We all know your point, just stop repeating it over and over again. Please ;)
I'm not sure some people do, because every time I make a point, they say stuff like "you must hate the game" or "if you don't like it, don't play".

If I hated the game, I wouldn't be suggesting ways that would help me and others play more.
JaDaKa
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Re: SCS General Discussion Thread

#17920 Post by JaDaKa » 03 Jul 2022 10:06

seriousmods wrote: 03 Jul 2022 09:06 Again, that is your opinion. Maybe you want a copy paste garage or drop and hook freight, but many players want more.
I don't see anyone else apart from yourself asking to build their own garage.

And I stand by everything I said.
Also saying a game's graphics does not matter is a new for me. Apart from indirectly admitting it looks like crap.
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