why scs software doesn't care about graphics in game?

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Eugene
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Re: why scs software doesn't care about graphics in game?

#281 Post by Eugene » 16 May 2022 17:27

seriousmods wrote: 16 May 2022 03:41 And all I hear from people like you is excuses. Excuses why SCS can't do this, can't do that, can't change, can't improve, can't learn, can't be like clearly successful companies. Excuses, excuses, excuses.

People compare themselves to people all the time. It's the nature of life. If you see someone with a nice car or a nice house, you notice. It doesn't mean that you have to become them. It means that they have something worth considering and perhaps you can improve yourself in some way to get better things of your own.

But as typical, no one wants to have a conversation. I'll add you to my growing foe list lol.
You always say excuses, excuses, excuses.

What you're missing is that people here are generally familiar with SCS, modders know the structure of the game, and they often can give you responses which are not EXCUSES, but actual REASONS for certain things not happening.
If you don't agree with reasons, there can not be a sensible discussion.
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Travismods
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Re: why scs software doesn't care about graphics in game?

#282 Post by Travismods » 16 May 2022 18:03

Nothing is black or white. Indeed, there are a lot of legitimate reasons, literally nobody is denying that. There are however also a ton of excuses being made. We should ask ourselves though, why are there even so many reasons with SCS for why x or y can't be done after all this time, when there are much less reasons like that with other developers? And yes, we should definitely compare SCS to other developers. That's healthy, anybody telling us "don't compare" are just trying to stop conversation and that is bordering on making excuses for SCS. In no other community have I seen so much reasons and excuses for why SCS can't do this or that. Its bordering on the extreme. SCS could probably do more, if people demanded more of them, if more people said "they could do that if they rework this" instead of "they can't because the engine does not support it so shut up". People are fine with status quo, that's the issue.
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rbsanford
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Re: why scs software doesn't care about graphics in game?

#283 Post by rbsanford » 16 May 2022 18:09

Most people here don't give "excuses" for why ATS can't be improved, but instead offer suggestions for improvement. One of the most talked about topics on the forum is how the game can be improved in various ways. Just check out the Public Research area.

Many people here do play the game regularly, they just aren't massive cynics, have been playing since the early days and therefore understand that the game really has improved massively, understand the limitations of hardware/the game engine/the map scale/a small company like SCS, and/or remember the MST3K Mantra ("just repeat to yourself it's just a [game], and you should really just relax").
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Re: why scs software doesn't care about graphics in game?

#284 Post by stchamber11 » 16 May 2022 18:58

I am not 100% getting this graphics question. I have a killer system for MSFS, so for ATS, I have everything as max as it goes. In my opinion, the graphics are spectacular. Textures, reflections, shadowing, sun light, sky, etc etc. Some of the views are just postcard and I often get screen shots. What are these other games this is being compared to, I do not see them when I look at latest driving on you tube.
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Re: why scs software doesn't care about graphics in game?

#285 Post by Optional Features » 16 May 2022 19:28

Eugene wrote: 16 May 2022 17:27 You always say excuses, excuses, excuses.

What you're missing is that people here are generally familiar with SCS, modders know the structure of the game, and they often can give you responses which are not EXCUSES, but actual REASONS for certain things not happening.
If you don't agree with reasons, there can not be a sensible discussion.
I understand there are reasons for some things, but there are not logical reasons for everything. What is the reason SCS has limited F7 configurations to only unloaded trailers?

What is the reason SCS has placed barricades in front of almost every building on the map except for the handful we can use?

[ external image ]

What is the reason we can no longer deliver to most gas stations?

What is the reason we can no longer sleep at hotels?

What is the reason we cannot go into the sleeper of a sleeper-equipped truck without mods?

What is the reason we got no new cargo with the dropdeck?

Why are SCS hills and trees seemingly about half as tall as they should be based on real life examples?

Why are freeway curves so flat and sharp instead of sweeping and banked?

What is the reason we're still using ETS1 garages for the latest SCS map DLCs?

What is the reason we're still using similarly old warehouses, again in the latest map DLCs?

What is the reason the sounds are so bad considering modders have remixed the same sound banks and made them much better?

What is the reason AI traffic violates the laws of physics?

Why are SCS tires gray?

Why are SCS white wheels not white?

Why are SCS axle hubs that should be black, also gray?

Why are SCS lanes several feet wider than their real life counterparts?

Why are new DLC roads flatter than old DLC roads?

Why does a fully loaded semi not feel fully loaded during acceleration or braking?

What are ETS2 tires (the "American" style ones) better quality than ATS?

What is the reason the sun light in the morning is dull, then nearly instantly bright? And the opposite is true for evenings?

I could go on. I'd love to hear actual reasons for these things.

And I'd love to hear a reason why consistently games like this are lagging way behind some of the top games on the market. What is the reason for that?
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Re: why scs software doesn't care about graphics in game?

#286 Post by angrybirdseller » 16 May 2022 20:01

Get egg on your face and spin some other item in the game to avoid admitting your wrong.

Deflection every time you been proven with assumptions incorrect.
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Re: why scs software doesn't care about graphics in game?

#287 Post by Optional Features » 16 May 2022 20:10

angrybirdseller wrote: 16 May 2022 20:01 Get egg on your face and spin some other item in the game to avoid admitting your wrong.

Deflection every time you been proven with assumptions incorrect.
It's you're.
Optional Features
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Re: why scs software doesn't care about graphics in game?

#288 Post by Optional Features » 16 May 2022 20:21

But since we started this conversation talking about graphics, and now we're talking about reasons why things can't be a certain way, why can't I get the sun in game to look anything like this real life pic? Similar angle, similar clouds, even matched the truck. Irl, it's bright. In game, it's dull. Why?

[ external image ]
[ external image ]
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Re: why scs software doesn't care about graphics in game?

#289 Post by Shiva » 16 May 2022 20:28

That, is not similar.

seriousmods wrote: 16 May 2022 02:25 I don't think it's dumb at all. Rockstar is undoubtedly one of the top game developers in the world, and SCS should be aiming to get to that level in a general sense. Secondly, SCS should be looking to maximize its resources within the confines of its budget to deliver the best game possible.

Will SCS ever be Rockstar or beat Rockstar? Likely not.

But can SCS learn some things from Rockstar? Absolutely.

There are a lot of things about GTA 5 that have no application to SCS, but there are plenty more things that do. A list of things that do includes:
  • Mountains and trees: in the GTA 5 map, these seem like a realistic height compared to their surroundings. SCS mountains and trees seem to be capped and incredibly short given the unlimited vertical space available.
  • Hills: in the GTA 5 map, hills are steep and challenging to drive at high speed. I can only imagine what their representation of a mountain pass would be like: SCS repeatedly underwhelms in this area.
  • Sense of scale: the SCS map doesn't feel large, even with addons. States pass in a blip, even crossing a continent seems like only a matter of a couple hours. GTA 5's much smaller map feels far larger than it should, likely due to the nearly unlimited places a player can go. There aren't constant walls, invisible barriers, and gates blocking players from exploring areas of the map that are already developed.
  • Pedestrian/animal life: SCS rarely includes animals in its maps, and the few pedestrians on the street are nearly as rare. Just walking around the GTA 5 map is enjoyable as there is a buzz of activity that changes with the weather and time of day. I don't expect this level of detail with SCS maps, but anything is better than the current near nothing.
  • Confusing layouts: this is perhaps the best part of playing GTA 5, the fact that you can get lost in a city if you take the wrong street. Even industrial zones like the port are as confusing as you'd expect them to be irl. There aren't markers and barriers directing the player to exact locations. It's an open world that's overwhelming for a newbie and still engaging for an oldie.
  • Bumps and imperfections in road surface: GTA 5 roads are what SCS roads should be at this point. They are uneven, have potholes, are sometimes undergoing construction work, etc. With force feedback enabled on a wheel, they are a challenge to drive, as they should be. SCS could learn the most from Rockstar in this area.
  • AI vehicle diversity: GTA 5 spawns different cars in different neighborhoods, and vehicles vary greatly even in certain areas. There are motorcycles, supercars, old vehicles, semis, garbage trucks, and more. It's a decently appropriate representation of what would be seen irl in various parts of a city.
  • Lighting and shadows: with a free graphics mod, GTA 5's aged graphics come to life, showcasing a proper sunrise, bright day, evening glow, sunset, and dark night. There are stars in the sky, and lights from buildings cast shadows on vehicles. It's an experience to drive around, and an enjoyable one.
Rockstar North? 650 working there (2018). Now it seems to be over 1k, according to a webpage.
SCS 170 (+30 contractors) (2019)

Rockstar North, seems to have revenue 10x that of SCS. Or close to it.

Regarding the scale etc? ETS2 and ATS are around 1:20. That goes to more than a few of your points.
You know those places you can't enter in ATS and ETS2, atleast those on streets going away from where you can drive? Visiting those, you would soon see that they are scenery, with less detail, ending in non driveable areas.
Made so the world seems bigger than it is.

1 point you are spot on tho. More pedestrians would be nice.

Do you make lists as these on iRacing, MSFS and more, forums?


And for your other post?
You really need to visit that bank with the truck? or whatever it is and get stuck with the truck?
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Re: why scs software doesn't care about graphics in game?

#290 Post by abasstreppas » 16 May 2022 20:45

@seriousmods If you use your brain to analyse those points you made you may actually be able to answer those yourself. At least half of those reasons are because the game is a niche game and to get some profits out of it you need to have a broader public. Only a fraction of all players of ETS2 and ATS have a gaming computer and even a lesser amount uses a wheel and pedals.

Most drive with keyboard and that's why roads are wider
Not all hubs are black on trucks/trailers in real life
For me a fully loaded trailer feels just fine, because I use an engine with medium hp , exactly like majority of trucks in real life also do
And so on...

Some of your remarks are of course valid and I also wonder from time to time why some stuff lacks progress, but to my surprise, all of a sudden something happens with an update. Even if it takes a long time, it still happens.

It's a complex game and it's only the last couple of years the company have grown into a somewhat decent size and on top of that the pandemic. You must look at what's happening present in the games. Austria for an example is at a completely new level, way better than Iberia in my opinion, the game finally feels alive. Things are moving forward, believe it or not.

OffTopic : Just curious, what's the reason for your nick, as I haven't seen any mods made by you? :?
Last edited by abasstreppas on 16 May 2022 20:46, edited 1 time in total.
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