ETS2 1.45 Speculation Thread

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Some newbie driver
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Re: ETS2 1.45 Speculation Thread

#101 Post by Some newbie driver » 28 Jun 2022 18:13

xXCARL1992Xx wrote: 28 Jun 2022 17:04well, you can put flour into a silo, I wouldn't call this a non-dangerous cargo
Flour isn't dangerous itself, high ppm concentrations of flour dust in the atmosphere on confined spaces is what's dangerous because it can cause a deflagration. If there's a high temp source, it ignites small particles of the floating flour starting a violent chain reaction (that both causes a shockwave and exhaust all present oxygen; so it can kill by pressure shock or by suffocation). That's why you will not find any dangerous cargo signals on a truck hauling flour (because there will not be conditions for the problem to happen); but those signals are placed in warehouses where high amount of flour is stored.

A similar problem exist with aluminum fine dust (and I think, but not sure, that's one of the reasons it's used as a component on some explosives).

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Re: ETS2 1.45 Speculation Thread

#102 Post by xXCARL1992Xx » 28 Jun 2022 18:16

didnt help this guy, the moment you load it you have enough particle floating inside a silo, even a garden shed is enough if you throw a massiv amount of flour into that could fit a silo to get it to explode

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Some newbie driver
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Re: ETS2 1.45 Speculation Thread

#103 Post by Some newbie driver » 28 Jun 2022 19:31

Sorry for him, but either a bad manipulation of the equipment or a bad maintenance. Those trailers should not have nothing inside that could ignite the flour by pure design (unless they were using a non-suitable trailer for that stuff) and the cargo process is done with vacuum systems so it should be no exposure to exterior factors. Once filled, by following procedures, there's nothing that should cause that and a leakage of cargo is absolutely harmless. And that's why flour isn't recognized as a dangerous cargo in road transport.

That doesn't change the fact that fiddle with heavy equipment is always dangerous in lots of different ways, no matter the hauled stuff isn't dangerous per se. It's the same as bulky cargoes hauled on a flatbed. The fact that isn't a dangerous stuff by itself doesn't change the fact it will become very dangerous (for the trucker or for others) if not properly tied and secured.

What I said before is that I guess there's not doubles for FUEL tankers because in most places (covered in ETS2) they would probably be not allowed due be dangerous cargo. "Dangerous" as labeled, stated and regulated cargoes (so, ADR) meaning; not "dangerous" meaning a general subjective sensation that there could be a danger when hauling them. I know for sure lots of other ADR cargoes have those limitations and I was guessing fuel could be the same (thus being that the reference SCS used for their choice). @alluke has put an example of some Nordic countries using extra large trailers for fuel; but notice they remain SINGLE trailers, not double. Is not that in Finland have any problems with articulated multi-trailers; so it should be a reason why fuel tankers remain single even if longer to (probably) leverage higher tonnage limits.

European regulators are very sensitive when mixing multiple-articulated vehicles and dangerous cargoes. I'm not who to say if they are right or too over-cautious; just saying what it is with lots of cargoes and why I guessed it could be the reason no doubles for fuel tankers in ETS2.

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Re: ETS2 1.45 Speculation Thread

#104 Post by xXCARL1992Xx » 28 Jun 2022 19:43

there is no vacuum, these trailers are all emptied via pressure, 2bar is the maximum and the tank will be emptied over time and compressed air can get hot as hell, it can get so hot the paint on the pipes will start to discolor over time, the same is done with cement, pressured air is pumped in and the cement will start to flow out of it automatically into the stationary silo, the same is done with flour, pressured air in until it starts to float and it will flow out of the silo to wherever it is connected to

the last thing you want to do it to unload them with vacuum, this would cause it to implode the moment the load is empty and there is a dent somewhere, with air pressure it wont happen because 2bar is maximum and if you are over the safety valve will go of, whether it is on the silo or on your compressor setup depends on the sensitivity
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Re: ETS2 1.45 Speculation Thread

#105 Post by abasstreppas » 28 Jun 2022 20:37

I wonder if static electricity could be a culprit in that accident in those pics?

What I know , sugar (the dust) is highly flammable too.
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Re: ETS2 1.45 Speculation Thread

#106 Post by xXCARL1992Xx » 28 Jun 2022 20:40

could be, normally they are grounded, some trailers you see chains under the chassis having contact to the ground or you ground it where you unload it if the trailer has a grounding cable on it
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Re: ETS2 1.45 Speculation Thread

#107 Post by Some newbie driver » 29 Jun 2022 00:16

xXCARL1992Xx wrote: 28 Jun 2022 19:43there is no vacuum, these trailers are all emptied via pressure
My bad here, I was remembering from old; maybe it was used time ago instead of pressured aas you explained is used in those.
xXCARL1992Xx wrote: 28 Jun 2022 19:43compressed air can get hot as hell
Literally up to double the air temperature (in kelvin) at intake; as the max pressure is 2bar as you said. But again, those parameters aren't taken randomly; if they allow 2 bars is because they know that temperature will NOT cause ignition on the flour with a good margin of safety. That's engineering, not guessing; those vehicles had to conform to lots of regulations to be certified and allowed to operate.

And that returns again what I said: bad maintenance (that caused malfunctioning/bad readings on the pressure being pumped, for example) or bad procedure (pumping into the tank air that was way hotter than max allowed at intake). Would that make flour to be considered dangerous, then everything hauled on a truck is because there's always big dangers when a trucker is reckless with procedures or the mechanic doesn't does a good maintenance. ADR cargo is ever dangerous and specially if leaked on accidents; while flour at most would be a pain in the back to clean it up.

And, BTW, bad design of that trailer too. It has been centuries already that it's know in engineering that an explosion on a confined space will break through the weakest point. Everywhere prone to suffer an explosion is tried to be engineered with a controlled weak spot to at least redirect most of the damage to the less dangerous place. You can find examples of that in lots of military equipment, but also in chemical facilities, fireworks factories... Should that had been considered when designing that trailer, no way the weakest point should had been facing the place where most of the time (with the trailer loaded) you can find almost sure a person (the driver). Some cover on the top should had broken way before that welding on the front collapsed. It could even be engineered that this cover would open "safely" (remaining attached to the trailer instead of being blown away to avoid landing over somebody's head). At that range of pressures isn't that difficult.

Regards

PS: @abasstreppas agree with the static spark, with all the friction of the materials and air through the whole system during charge/discharge, probably a lot of static could build up. But then the grounding of the trailer should had to care about this if it was properly set. And you are right, sugar has the same problem and due the same carbs nature that share with flour. The smaller and more refined the particle, the more prone to burn.
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