A 1:1 Map Scale Is Feasible, But Not Manually

Trakaplex
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Re: A 1:1 Map Scale Is Feasible, But Not Manually

#31 Post by Trakaplex » 06 Jan 2023 16:27

Well let's not use MSFS, like I said it depends on how you store the data in the game. No Man's Sky has like 18 quintillion planets and it's only 12 GB...

I compress PDF's all the time.
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Re: A 1:1 Map Scale Is Feasible, But Not Manually

#32 Post by xXCARL1992Xx » 06 Jan 2023 16:32

now you compare procedurally generated environments to a static existing one ?

also, srsly, a .pdf? this is a bit of text with images, this is nothing compared to the volume a game has to carry, look at the newest CODs, they dont have a big map at all, relatively compared to the world, and they use already 200GB of data

the more is on the map, the bigger the size will be, especially with unique assets, compression can only do so much and then there is the issue of loading said assets, some modern games have the same assets strewn around the game installation multiple times to make loading faster
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Trakaplex
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Re: A 1:1 Map Scale Is Feasible, But Not Manually

#33 Post by Trakaplex » 06 Jan 2023 16:58

I was thinking different continents for different maps, which would cut on the area dramatically. Kinda of like the UK in current ETS2. North America can't connect South America because of the Darien Gap. If you left Egypt and try to drive to Israel it would turn into a loading screen.

SpaceEngine uses some irl data, but the planets aren't as HD as Google Earth. Moreover you can customize the procedurally generated ones to be HD. But as I estimate, having a meter length resolution would only be 1 million times the data, so for the whole universe 4 PB. And the Minecraft world is 97 PB with 1.7 sextillion blocks. Repeating textures are the same bitrate over and over again, it's just equivalent.
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Re: A 1:1 Map Scale Is Feasible, But Not Manually

#34 Post by xXCARL1992Xx » 06 Jan 2023 17:02

it isnt feasibly, if MSFS already uses 2PB of data and the ground is, with few exceptions, useless for games like ETS/ATS, then nobody will be able to do it in our time, with a recreation of Earth, not some fantasy generated terrain, even if you split it up it is still to much data for offline use, and Streaming these kind of games with interactivity are also not an option if even Google couldnt keep Stadia afloat for streaming
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Re: A 1:1 Map Scale Is Feasible, But Not Manually

#35 Post by Trakaplex » 06 Jan 2023 17:17

xXCARL1992Xx wrote: 06 Jan 2023 17:02 it isnt feasibly, if MSFS already uses 2PB of data and the ground is, with few exceptions, useless for games like ETS/ATS, then nobody will be able to do it in our time, with a recreation of Earth, not some fantasy generated terrain, even if you split it up it is still to much data for offline use, and Streaming these kind of games with interactivity are also not an option if even Google couldnt keep Stadia afloat for streaming
Well there is already a team rebuilding every manmade structure on Earth in Minecraft. And according to the creator, the world assets would be about 1 PB. And the mod they're using, Terra 1:1 uses Google Maps/Earth data and regenerates the terrain as Minecraft blocks. So there is a 1:1 representation of Earth in a procedurally generated block game. They've already built like all of Manhattan and it's barely equivalent to the normal block count. Like I said, if we broke the 1:1 sim in terms of continents, everything will be significantly reduced. Everything could be a custom asset if there is a different geometry of an object.

Collecting data from Google Maps and Street View like BTE and merging it into one. As long as the frames are limited it won't be a problem. My laptop is about 1 TFLOPS and PB of world data? Come on.


Moreover he mentioned BitInteger, which can raise the integer limits to not just steady numbers but based on your computer's RAM.
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Re: A 1:1 Map Scale Is Feasible, But Not Manually

#36 Post by xXCARL1992Xx » 06 Jan 2023 17:27

"Well there is already a team rebuilding every manmade structure on Earth in Minecraft. And according to the creator, the world assets would be about 1 PB."

1PB in Minecraft style, several PB in normal game style, stop comparing minecraft with its 16x16px textures to a normal game that uses much higher resolution textures and then more then just 50 and unique assets and not blocks

you try to grasp at straws that are not made for your weight and fail spectacularly, a world in 1:1 in GTA V style would be over 100PB with its uniqueness and interactivity, take better metrics next time :roll:
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Re: A 1:1 Map Scale Is Feasible, But Not Manually

#37 Post by Trakaplex » 06 Jan 2023 17:51

Well, who cares if it's Minecraft or not; only the byte numbers count. But yeah you're right, the textures there are pretty basic. There's some mod there that can extend the world limit of Minecraft to 2^64 (2000 light years), and that would be 491 undecillion block textures. In comparison there are 100 quindecillion atoms on Earth. Now in comparison, if 1.7 sextillion block normal Minecraft is 97 PB. That would be 28 decillion bytes (about 28,000 quettabytes). That is way above 100 PB. Like I said, lower frames won't crash your PC. Just preprogram the assets that would make the 1:1 sim world more enjoyable. As long as the integer limits are high, maps like that are doable. MSFS is in the petabytes, but within even 1 million times more resolution would be in the zettabytes. And moreover, how can I have a petabyte map when that isn't even my hard drive?
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Re: A 1:1 Map Scale Is Feasible, But Not Manually

#38 Post by xXCARL1992Xx » 06 Jan 2023 17:59

you know, you just show more and more that you cant do the math at all, you throw in random games and dont even know how they work and then turn 180, just to turn 180 again

this topic isnt worth it, games with interactivity in GTA V style, that people want from ETS and ATS, to be in 1:1 are technically not feasible for a semi sized company like SCS when even Microsoft uses tricks in FS and also has their own server network to work with for a game that isnt as complex as an open world game with its interactivity and AI
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Re: A 1:1 Map Scale Is Feasible, But Not Manually

#39 Post by Trakaplex » 06 Jan 2023 18:29

I might be pulling up random examples, but Block-Nerf is definitely the one to compare if we want a GTAV-like 1:1 world. That's moreover what I'm talking about in general. Minecraft has much fewer bitrate than the others. How much data does Google Earth 3D imagery have? You can even read road signs in that. Block-Nerf uses self-driving cars all over large areas to capture millions of images and place it in a Google Immersive view. That way we can get working traffic lights, underneath bridges, and other small aspects. It looks they removed the pedestrians though due to privacy issues.

https://waymo.com/research/block-nerf/

I'm sure if one Russian astronomer built all of SpaceEngine (which uses real data for planets and satellites like Enceladus and even exoplanets like Proxima b), I'm sure SCS can take Block-Nerf's assets and like I said - take the programs run in ETS2/ATS and overlay it. They already have a 1:1 Bay Area and 1:1 cities in Italy, so a 1:1 world can be done if they send out more self-driving cars. Maybe SCS can team with Block-Nerf to keep the server data, and Waymo uses Google.

Even though Minecraft is pixelated texture, the world still is 97 PB and it's not even connected to the internet. So who says a 100 PB precision world isn't doable especially with uncentillions of integer limits, as our computers over time can execute more floating points and have larger hard drives. Now in the trillions. Second, it depends on the efficiency of the game engine. If it can process 50x better than Minecraft and Prism3D, fine. And as I've said splitting continents in individual maps would drastically decrease the issues you seem to be explaining like only 1/7 or even less the data if we exclude the oceans and just make it a loading screen (like to get from Dover to Calais in ETS2). MSFS is a bad example now, because it includes the oceans.
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Re: A 1:1 Map Scale Is Feasible, But Not Manually

#40 Post by JeeF » 04 Feb 2023 04:13

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