Are people more motivated for ATS now?

Trakaplex
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Are people more motivated for ATS now?

#1 Post by Trakaplex » 19 Sep 2022 16:20

I don't want this to be an opinion paper. In December 2020, around the time Texas was first leaked in pictures: we were arguing on the wiki. I was starting to think this two years ago, after the success of Colorado. https://truck-simulator.fandom.com/f/p/ ... 0000066257
Trakaplex: Sorry for the excessive posting here, but I have a urgent message to ETS2. The game has seen a drop in players, while ATS is on the rise. Here's why. Many of the Euro DLC maps are old and lacking in quality, as many say "copy and pasted models". YouTuber Clumsy has mentioned that what part of what makes Colorado so good is that each implemented tree has a unique look. And when it also comes to ATS, the devs are paying more attention to details not just in courthouses and stadiums, but small statues as well (as seen in leaked Texas pics).


There are many inconsistencies as well, Clumsy also mentioned that a lot of locals of the Baltic region have came reporting that interchanges were incorrect, landmarks, and even things as broad as few road systems. However, if you compare ATS to reality, it's pretty close. All that would be left is facelifting Los Angeles and Phoenix. As you see, they are currently facelifting northern California, and a small revamp to the early states will restore them to current standards. Iberia may be the last high quality map DLC of ETS2. There has been a conspiracy with building Russia, but that may be in a long while. Years. The idea of facelifting all the map DLCs has most likely been rebutted.

There are also many other things, like addition of more trucks to ATS, etc. Europe would have pretty much been given up by the time of Texas if they don't do something.
Patrickov: Somewhat inevitable that Europe will get less attention because of the sheer size of the United States. However, in terms of gameplay, even ETS 1 has its play value.

Frankly I personally dislike conspiracy theories and have a feeling that someone is a bit over-worrying.

Considering that they do pay effort to rebuild Germany, there will still be a lot for them to deliver in ETS 2. Also, if Iberia comes with bus stations, and given the recent menu change, I will say the "coach" module is possibly higher on the queue than what has been for the past 8 years, and it will be a good chance to cash something big -- I believe that module worths 15 dollars or even more.
SCS started rebuilding European countries from scratch around late 2021, starting with Austria and now Switzerland. But these are two tiny countries, and people have been begging forever for the UK, years now. It doesn't seem pretty soon when all of old Europe would be facelifted (at this rate, 2028). For example, ATS only has CA, NV, and AZ, and for NM and OR, probably a little retexturing. After all, 2012 UK is definitely more needed than 2016 Cali.
A recent Steam review on the Colorado DLC: Better than any past or current DLC, including recent "reworks" of Austria in ETS2. It is a confident buy and no regrets. Now SCS just needs to make some overdue upgrades in terms of physics, AI and overall gameplay...


Iberia triggered the hype for ETS2 from 2020-2021.

Moreover, HoR, supposed to be a 2022 DLC got shelved due to current conflict and SCS didn't want to look bad. It was though, the main hub of hype after Iberia. A small Swiss revamp and West Balkans will be 2023, yet it is still uncertain for HoR. They charged for Going East $9.99, but when the $17.99 expansions came, people were complaining it was almost the price of the game itself. Moreover, West Balkans is only roughly the size of Montana, making ATS map expansions better deals. Tiny Italia is $17.99, with New Mexico $11.99. Now DLC prices should be based on work/map area size. Iberia, slightly smaller than Texas, only took a year and a half, with Texas THREE years. The result was that people became demotivated for ETS2 DLC after the news about HoR, and ATS had become the center of attention with Montana and especially, Texas. The map leads are more efficient for ATS as well, with the same levels of quality and accuracy. Montana broke a record of 11 months, and it would make sense speeding Davido would release a whole OK-KS-NE bundle by 2023. And Davido's team is looking at our complaints and adding more roads to DLC. If the Texas team split after completion, that could be three more normal-sized DLC potential.

Still there has been no answer for the UK rebuild despite its demand. All ETS2 has left after 2023 is Greece, Ukraine/Belarus/Moldova, Ireland, and North Scandinavia, and a plague of reskins. But also, the truth is that ProMods exists. They have their own expansions/redos, which might create un-hype for vanilla redos/expansions. It might also spoil the minds of players about the vanilla redos. ProMods doesn't have much of ATS besides BC. Many other mods like Reforma hit the top as well. Pavel stated SCS has plans to finish all of North America for ATS (could be Central America also), creating a MUCH bigger driving universe than all of ETS2, which is only for Europe. It wouldn't make sense for them to expand into North Africa when it's called "Euro" Truck Sim. But does that raise the question if that ETS2 DLC's have such few left, does that make it fair compared to ATS?

ETS2 is almost 10 years old, that's impressive. But... I'm kinda worried.
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Aziz
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Re: Are people more motivated for ATS now?

#2 Post by Aziz » 19 Sep 2022 17:14

Trakaplex wrote: 19 Sep 2022 16:20Tiny Italia is $17.99, with New Mexico $11.99. Now DLC prices should be based on work/map area size. Iberia, slightly smaller than Texas, only took a year and a half, with Texas THREE years.
Italia has 22 cities and dense road network, NM has 14 and is placed in a desert. ATS maps are cheaper probably because there will be more of them, and the base game seemingly comes with less roads to explore than ETS. Also, as described above, there's less in the ATS dlcs. So I would be VERY surprised if Texas had the same price as, I dunno, mostly empty Utah.
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Re: Are people more motivated for ATS now?

#3 Post by oldmanclippy » 27 Sep 2022 14:39

I disagree with some things in here:

- ATS maps are certainly a "worse" value compared to ETS2 maps. Iberia is over twice the size of most ATS DLCs, with way more new companies and industries. But it only cost about 50% more. Texas will be the exception unless bundling starts to happen. ETS2 maps come with more cities, more roads, more companies, more industries, and just overall more "new" than ATS maps for a more than fair price increase.

- I like ProMods for what it is, but IMO the Austria rework is so far ahead. I still contend that Austria is the highest quality region in either game overall. And it was done for free. Compare that to the California rework, which while very good had a few misses and didn't really rethink the road network like they did for Austria. Going forward, the CA rework might adopt the Austria philosophy of "tear down and rebuild", but that is yet to be confirmed.

- ETS2 has had a string of unfortunate events and just natural circumstances that I think are artificially creating the perception that it is being left behind compared to ATS. The one area where it is unequivocally falling behind is in trucks, ATS has had way more and way better trucks release in the past few years. That's not debatable.
--- Iberia was delayed due to the new lighting system, so the gap between RttBS and Iberia was the longest DLC gap the game has had since Going East to Scandinavia.
--- Heart of Russia was indefinitely postponed due to the war. And it was delayed pretty much when the main work on HoR was complete and all that was left was testing. So just about the worst possible timing. Therefore the gap between Iberia and West Balkans will be maximized. About 2 years which will become the longest DLC gap the game has had ever. Once January comes I believe, we'll officially be in the longest ETS2 map DLC drought.
--- ATS DLCs are designed to come out at a faster pace so it feels like ATS has gotten more additions. But Iberia is still more content overall than Wyoming and Montana combined I would wager. If HoR came out which was probably not much smaller than Texas, then the two games would have released about the same amount of paid map content from Iberia to present and from Wyoming through Texas.

- In terms of realism, I think ETS2 probably takes the cake. SCS I don't think quite gets the differences of the American road network compared to the European one. Too many short on-ramps, artificially de-widened interstates, houses that look completely out of place, warehouses that look European, etc. Maybe it's just because I live in the USA so I see the differences more, but when I compare especially Austria and Iberia to Street View as I go along, I'm consistently impressed by how they are able to really capture the vibe of a place. In ATS, they're pretty good at capturing small town charm and environmental detail, but most of the trucking-related things are done better in ETS2, IMO. But they're improving quickly for sure.

...

In general, I think both games have things that the other could learn from. ETS2 is much better on the logistics, industries, companies, etc side. The game feels much more focused on trucking whereas ATS really lags behind in those things to the point where I strongly believe that Texas is their last chance to change their tune on those things if they want any hope of bringing some of the ETS2 fans over to ATS. ATS is really good about capturing small town vibes with scenic cities and something that is painfully absent from ETS2. Iberia has maybe 1 or 2 small towns you can drive through, and they're some of the highlights of the game. Really makes you feel like you're in a rural town in Spain/Portugal. But the focus just isn't there. At least not as much as ATS. Part of the American fascination with Europe is not only the big cities like Paris, Berlin, Madrid, etc but also the small towns in the countryside that are quaint and interesting. ETS2 could stand to include more of that IMO. On a broader level, ETS2 just doesn't do a good job of showing where people live. In ATS, I don't doubt that there is a large pool of humans to work at all these depots we deliver to. In ETS2, I often wonder where the heck people live. Maybe that's just Europe having residential areas further away from main trucking routes, but I think some of it is just that the focus isn't there.

I think once West Balkans and Switzerland and the newer MAN and Feldbinder all come out, it will feel like ETS2 is a focus once again. We're just in a drought right now but it is temporary.

In terms of what the future holds, that I kind of agree with you on. ATS can keep going for a long time if the interest is there. Canada, Mexico, even Central America to the Darien Gap if they're brave enough. ETS2, is a bit more limited but not as limited as people think. Remember, SCS has said on more than one occasion that the "Euro" in the title is referring to the style of truck, not the continent.

Greece
Anatolia
Island of Ireland
Northern Scandinavia
Iceland
North Africa

But a lot of places I just think aren't realistic. Ukraine and Belarus and more of Russia I think are off the table for the forseeable future. And Central Asia wouldn't make sense without that groundwork laid. Finally, the Middle East and the Arabic and Persian worlds are just too risky most likely.

So ETS2 will run out of locations quicker I think. If SCS has the talent and the desire to make another trucking game, then I think Indian Truck Simulator, Japanese Truck Simulator, or Australian Truck Simulator are the best options. They all have unique trucking cultures to Europe so they need their own license agreements anyways so being a new game isn't a problem.

I don't think ETS2 nor ATS are designed to be forever games. They will take a long time to complete, but ETS2 will most likely not make it to its 20th anniversary of active development, and honestly I doubt ATS will either. I just don't see the game getting big enough to be able to survive after the lower 48 is complete. But who knows what the future will hold.

Personally, I'd like to see ETS2 be treated as a completed game once those 6 regions I stated are added and once the base map and some of the early DLC areas are reworked. Or maybe if the time is right they can finish if off with Ukraine/Belarus/HoR. Then hand the game over to a modding community that will no longer have to worry about game updates breaking things and the game will continue to have long legs post-support. Then move on to a new region of the world if trucking simulators is what SCS wants to keep doing. It's not a guarantee that they will want to do them forever, but given their long history with them I think it's possible that they remain in that genre for a long time.
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Re: Are people more motivated for ATS now?

#4 Post by HighFlyer » 04 Oct 2022 08:23

Why are we looking at value here?
Do you really browse the DLCs on Steam and think to yourself "I will not spend £2 more, purely because one has more value than another"
- ETS2 has had a string of unfortunate events and just natural circumstances that I think are artificially creating the perception that it is being left behind compared to ATS. The one area where it is unequivocally falling behind is in trucks, ATS has had way more and way better trucks release in the past few years. That's not debatable.
--- Iberia was delayed due to the new lighting system, so the gap between RttBS and Iberia was the longest DLC gap the game has had since Going East to Scandinavia.
--- Heart of Russia was indefinitely postponed due to the war. And it was delayed pretty much when the main work on HoR was complete and all that was left was testing. So just about the worst possible timing. Therefore the gap between Iberia and West Balkans will be maximized. About 2 years which will become the longest DLC gap the game has had ever. Once January comes I believe, we'll officially be in the longest ETS2 map DLC drought.
--- ATS DLCs are designed to come out at a faster pace so it feels like ATS has gotten more additions. But Iberia is still more content overall than Wyoming and Montana combined I would wager. If HoR came out which was probably not much smaller than Texas, then the two games would have released about the same amount of paid map content from Iberia to present and from Wyoming through Texas.
All valid reasons.
I'll add something to this - they're just two vastly different continents. Go on OSM, look at America and its sparse density. You look at Europe, roads and communities everywhere!
Point is, ATS launched four years later than ETS2 - even by this stage, ATS was more advanced. SCS knew of ProMods and learned new mapping techniques, constantly expanding their map making department.
At some point, ETS2 will stop being financially viable so the strategy will have to change.

Classic/used trucks DLC (if they can get licences), Coach DLC, multiplayer ... there's so much scope for development.
Patrickov: Somewhat inevitable that Europe will get less attention because of the sheer size of the United States. However, in terms of gameplay, even ETS 1 has its play value.
True, just a silly comment. Naturally a bigger continent needs more attention; one state is often larger than one country in ETS2. Doesn't make ETS2 less attractive though in my eyes.
Greece
Anatolia
Island of Ireland
Northern Scandinavia
Iceland
North Africa
Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Moldova, Israel ... Europe doesn't stop on Istanbul, and going South to North Africa seems to be a common obsession that I don't think SCS will entertain.
Micronations DLC? San Marino, Vatican City :lol: , Andorra, Liechtenstein ...

It's more likely (still unlikely) we'll get a rehauled ETS3 first with DLCs available now as a base map, and old areas redone as paid content.
We're unlikely to get ATS2 anytime soon.
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Re: Are people more motivated for ATS now?

#5 Post by angrybirdseller » 04 Oct 2022 21:22

ATS will be fine as there good 10 years or more map to build. The ETS2 have handful of small countries to build but those can be done by 2025. If HOR is still delayed not released by 2025 think ETS2 will be done for.

Think ETS2 have Greece, Turkey, Ireland, rebuild older base map areas and going east.

SCS should think new region South America-Argentina and Brazil along with other countries to build trucking simulator in that region at 1:20 scale.



ATS is better built its five years newer, but I think they learned from earlier ATS and ETS2 what works and does not.
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Re: Are people more motivated for ATS now?

#6 Post by HighFlyer » 06 Oct 2022 10:35

angrybirdseller wrote: 04 Oct 2022 21:22 ATS will be fine as there good 10 years or more map to build. The ETS2 have handful of small countries to build but those can be done by 2025. If HOR is still delayed not released by 2025 think ETS2 will be done for.

Think ETS2 have Greece, Turkey, Ireland, rebuild older base map areas and going east.

SCS should think new region South America-Argentina and Brazil along with other countries to build trucking simulator in that region at 1:20 scale.



ATS is better built its five years newer, but I think they learned from earlier ATS and ETS2 what works and does not.
From what I can deduce: Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, Ireland, Iceland, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Israel, Malta, Andorra, Moldova
There's still a massive part of Scandinavia that can be released as a DLC - Northern Lights DLC.
SCS did the same with Russia, added Kaliningrad & Saint Petersburg and the idea was to save the rest for HoR.

Let's not forget there's still a world of roads beyond Glasgow, so maybe a Scottish Highlands DLC?
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Re: Are people more motivated for ATS now?

#7 Post by Mohegan13 » 06 Oct 2022 10:56

Trakaplex wrote: 19 Sep 2022 16:20 All ETS2 has left after 2023 is Greece, Ukraine/Belarus/Moldova, Ireland, and North Scandinavia, and a plague of reskins.
Problem here is you're assuming they are only going to do European countries. Euro refers to the trucks, not necessarily the continent. Since we expect they will add the rest of Turkey, that gives at least one direct connection further East. If they ever add it Southern Russia that's two. So why not expand into the Middle East which opens up Egypt and North Africa too which would give them reasonable path to Morocco. Whether they would want to do that is unknown, but if European trucks go there it's an option for them. I'd certainly rather they do that than look at a potential ETS3 unless there was a legitimate reason from a code/engine perspective. We would lose a lot of trucks if they went the new game route.

Also if they only stuck to those DLC areas mentioned by yourself, that would put an end to reskins too. There's no money in reskins from existing customers and I don't think paintjob packs will sustain them. So there's really only two options. Continue expanding into other areas or a new game, whether that is Europe based or somewhere else like Australia.

Trakaplex wrote: 19 Sep 2022 16:20 Still there has been no answer for the UK rebuild despite its demand.
Pavel already told us that it would be done in one bulk update and not in phases like Germany. A bulk update for the UK will likely take 3+ years, particularly if they completed redo it with a scale change as many believe they will. The path for the UK would make sense to copy Texas. Have one individual work on it while the rest of the reskin team do other areas. Then when they are closer to finishing it stick the whole team on for that last push. But obviously they aren't going to talk in detail about it until they are expecting it to be the next area and they start with the blog teasers.

It's also very likely that they might want to coincide a UK update with an Island of Ireland DLC.

When you sit back and think about things logically, you can tend to pick out what they might do and where they might go.
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Re: Are people more motivated for ATS now?

#8 Post by F4R35 » 06 Oct 2022 11:40

Mohegan13 wrote: 06 Oct 2022 10:56
Problem here is you're assuming they are only going to do European countries. Euro refers to the trucks, not necessarily the continent. Since we expect they will add the rest of Turkey
North Africa: Algeria, Morroco Tunisia,and Lybia, all use European Trucks only and has direct trade connection with European countries. Morroco to be specific, they have ferries to Spain that operate all day during the entire week, it's fairly regular to see Morrocan registered trucks in Europe, not just Spain, Algeria as well have a ferry to and from Marseille France, to 3 different Ports in Algeria that operates 3 times a week and one from Corsica once a week.

The same goes for Tunisia and Libya to and from Italy and Sicily...not to mention Turkey to the Middle East where most middle east countries use Euro trucks only and a handful of Chinese brands like JAC, FAW,Dongfeng...and Hyundai trucks (Korean).

I believe ETS2 has a lot of room to expand it's map.
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Re: Are people more motivated for ATS now?

#9 Post by HighFlyer » 06 Oct 2022 14:02

Mohegan13 wrote: 06 Oct 2022 10:56 Problem here is you're assuming they are only going to do European countries. Euro refers to the trucks, not necessarily the continent.
I never actually knew this :shock:
Mohegan13 wrote: 06 Oct 2022 10:56 Since we expect they will add the rest of Turkey, that gives at least one direct connection further East. If they ever add it Southern Russia that's two. So why not expand into the Middle East which opens up Egypt and North Africa too which would give them reasonable path to Morocco.
I was always much opposed of adding such areas to the game, as it is a "Euro Truck Simulator" but have SCS actually ever said those words above? The way you explain it, makes sense, because the continent continues, like North America continues onto Canada and Mexico in ATS.
Mohegan13 wrote: 06 Oct 2022 10:56 It's also very likely that they might want to coincide a UK update with an Island of Ireland DLC.
When you sit back and think about things logically, you can tend to pick out what they might do and where they might go.
Most people on this forum never realise that SCS at the end of the day is a business. To stay in business, it needs to make money.
I always thought it isn't going to happen any other way with Ireland and the UK. Ireland sounds like an opportunity to make money whilst working on a new version of the UK.
This whole "panic" around ETS running out of content is dumbfounded to me.
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Re: Are people more motivated for ATS now?

#10 Post by oldmanclippy » 06 Oct 2022 14:12

SCS has explicitly stated that the Euro refers to the truck style and not the continent, although that's one of those things that has just become common knowledge with the source never being presented so I can't say exactly when and where it was stated. I sincerely hope it is true because lots of people including myself regurgitate it all the time in response to discussions like these.
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