Are you satisfied with the direction in which the game is developing

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plykkegaard
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Re: Are you satisfied with the direction in which the game is developing

#131 Post by plykkegaard » 05 Dec 2022 17:11

Multi core first if anything, then DX12 as it is dependent

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JeeF
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Re: Are you satisfied with the direction in which the game is developing

#132 Post by JeeF » 05 Dec 2022 17:52

flight50 wrote: 05 Dec 2022 15:33 I'm giving him that benefit of the doubt. That is all I needed to hear.
Alright, fair enough.
So why don't we put a clock on that?
How many years will your patience last? Can we set a year for when enough is enough?
I'm genuinely asking, not trying to say anything by it.

2023? 2025?

I'll refrain from touching the subject again until enough people agree that enough is enough. Seems like I'm the only one for now, but I'm a patient man.
"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." - Plato
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plykkegaard
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Re: Are you satisfied with the direction in which the game is developing

#133 Post by plykkegaard » 05 Dec 2022 18:08

We can be waiting for an eternity and then some

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flight50
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Re: Are you satisfied with the direction in which the game is developing

#134 Post by flight50 » 05 Dec 2022 18:19

plykkegaard wrote: 05 Dec 2022 17:11 Multi core first if anything, then DX12 as it is dependent
Yesss this. From there, the game has many avenues. We just need skilled programmers to enhance the game at that point. So I am eager to see the possibilities.

Seasons and multi drop are my biggest wants. Seasons unfortunately is still years away I think but with the team growing, it needs to come sooner than later. With Seasons comes 3 things that are critical imo:
1. Serious effort for weather with particle system
2. Tire physics. Start there. Worry about suspension physics later.
3. Calendar system. This opens up economy management too.

Seasons if done right can be impactful for sure. To do it right, we don't need 4 seasons.....we need multiples of 4. We need 16, 20 or 24 seasons. Incremental is how seasons can look dynamic. If we get 4, 5 or 6 phases per season, the transition would be more subtle. It could take 2-3 days to transition or it can take 5-7 days. But sublte is best.

@JeeF I really hope it's 2023. It was Summer 2021 Pavel mentioned the engine upgrade on the Daf stream. Summer 2023 makes 2 years since he mentioned it. I think the dev time is much longer though. I'd say back to DX11 days. Dec 2023 is about the time to start pushing, imo. I think it comes before that though.
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Re: Are you satisfied with the direction in which the game is developing

#135 Post by Optional Features » 05 Dec 2022 18:34

We talk about seasons as though it is this impossible feat to achieve. SCS had snow in 18 WOS: American Long Haul. They could have snow tomorrow if they wanted it. It would be everywhere, but it would be something. Or they could employ the technique used in the Alaska map, and have "winter" spawn as a map addon in affected areas (mountain passes primarily). Combine that with the winter texture mod (with the clear roads addon) for less affected areas, and we'd have a winner.

The other two seasons are just changes to the length of the day and the color of the foliage. Grimes has figured out how to do this. Hire him, like GIANTS hired Realsimus after FS19. Have the seasons change at the end of a day with a loading screen.

The problem is priority. SCS is prioritizing constant changes to the photo mode and new themed skins. Is this what the community wants? Unsure, but it seems low priority for a game that still doesn't have a basic log book system or useful scales after 7-8 years of development.

When their priorities change, the game will change. Or maybe some modder will do something that convinces them to change. I was glad to see a dev commenting on driveable AI. They should have thought of this themselves, but a solo modder is doing it for them.

Who could have expected that people would want drivable pilot cars for convoy mode?
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Re: Are you satisfied with the direction in which the game is developing

#136 Post by xXCARL1992Xx » 05 Dec 2022 18:36

"They could have snow tomorrow if they wanted it."

more and more you show you don't anything about what you are talking about :rofl:
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Re: Are you satisfied with the direction in which the game is developing

#137 Post by 55sixxx » 05 Dec 2022 18:42

seriousmods wrote: 05 Dec 2022 18:34 SCS had snow in 18 WOS: American Long Haul. They could have snow tomorrow if they wanted it.
That was NOTHING but different textures to the base "summer" environment. The snow had no effect ,whatsoever, in absolutely nothing. Traction was still the same, engine would still run the same, everything stayed the same. If you want this, fine... But then don't come whining later saying that the winter season is useless and nothing but a re-texture.

And like Carl just said, this just goes to show how little is the knowledge you have over the games you claim to have played many and many times.

SCS is far from perfect but I'm sure that when the time comes to add winter into ATS, they'll do a better job than what you just proposed.
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Re: Are you satisfied with the direction in which the game is developing

#138 Post by flight50 » 05 Dec 2022 19:06

To add to thought.............

I don't think it is wise for SCS to release the engine update along side a map release. Of course they can but I personally don't think its wise. Why? I think the engine update needs to do what DX11 did. I think we need a full update or two to work out kinks and not have a map update impacted. Lighting impacted Iberia so it was delayed. We have WB which is probably next. That could be 1.47 or 1.48. We have Oklahoma for ATS that could be 1.48 or 1.49. We don't know anything about Kansas yet but that could be 1.49.

I'm going with 3 major updates per year that could bring the update. Spring, Summer and late Fall. ATS is back to 2 maps per year. ETS2 is probably on Spring/Summer releases now and no Winter with ATS. I have no clue how the engine upgrade can impact map gameplay wise though. Bugs, crashes.............not good for map releases. People would blow up. I just wouldn't release a map with paid dlc's. The engine would have to be tested and tested and tested if its going to come with a map release. That could be stressful. I hope they at least go with Experimental beta prior to Open beta. The beta could last as long as 1.37 did with Fmod.

We also don't know how deep this first wave of the engine upgrade will be. The minimum hopefully is multi core, DX12 and dirt on trucks w/truck washes. I'm cool with that to start. Or will there be a lot more impacts day one of the upgrade. My wishlist for day one engine upgrade is: multi core, dx12, dirt, improved AI (smarter, denser, "Rush Hour feature"), AA support, multi drop and improved weather. If all this comes along side the engine upgrade, I think there is a tonnnn to cheer for. This is a huge list and addresses a lot of concerns. But this is my list. I can't speak for everyone. If we get these things, I just find it hard to say its not heading in the right direction.

So if my words are impactful to SCS, I'd recommend starting with the above first. If I ever got to talk to Pavel in real life or even as a consultant for North America, I'd love to chat improvements. I'd love to meet SCS gain here in the states and I'd hope its a trip that Pavel makes over. I'd plan to attend for sure if given enough time to prepare. Its not about me at that point. The potential is bigger than me and I've love to be a big voice if I could. I'd take a lot of feedback I see on here and I'd prioritize it based on what I see the most. I refrain from vetoing anything but I'd put things I see less impactful at the bottom of the list.

For the record, most things I mention goes for ETS2 as well. If it comes for ATS, it comes for ETS2. I'm not speaking of anything specific to ATS. I just stay on this side of the forum because I get in less trouble, lol. When it comes to features though, its the same code that goes into both games. Specifics would mainly be assets and companies for the most part. Even industries and cargo can be the same for both games but setup per each economy.
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Re: Are you satisfied with the direction in which the game is developing

#139 Post by Optional Features » 05 Dec 2022 19:16

flight50 wrote: 05 Dec 2022 19:06 My wishlist for day one engine upgrade is: multi core, dx12, dirt, improved AI (smarter, denser, "Rush Hour feature"), AA support, multi drop and improved weather. If all this comes along side the engine upgrade, I think there is a tonnnn to cheer for. This is a huge list and addresses a lot of concerns. But this is my list. I can't speak for everyone. If we get these things, I just find it hard to say its not heading in the right direction.
That would be an impressive update!
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Re: Are you satisfied with the direction in which the game is developing

#140 Post by JeeF » 05 Dec 2022 19:21

We don't have a crystal ball to tell us what's going on inside SCS and their development mentality.
All we can do is deal with FACTS. All we have is information on what SCS delivered in the past, to judge what they will in the future.

So let's leave aside opinions for now, cos I believe that "I think this, I think that" is not productive and I'm personally not interested.

What has SCS done for ATS or ETS2 in the past few years that was actually meaningful, aside map expansion?
The last thing I can think of that was actually meaningful was multiplayer, and they made a hash of that.
We can see each other, and grab the same job, but what else? Can't work together in one company and grow it.
Can't use the same garage. Can't even see each other driving into the garage. Why are they so afraid of taking chances? Always going the simplest and easiest routes in development.

I can't remember any other meaningful addition or change to the game that wow'd me. New trailers and trucks? Mods already cover that and do a much better job. Mods very often wow me, updates don't.

This leads me to believe that SCS may be afraid of pushing a change out and is not perfect, as players will see it and think "wow, is that the best SCS can do after all these years waiting?"
And in fact that may be the case, that may be the best they can do with the tools and personnel they have at hand. So instead of taking a chance, they just don't deliver anything at all. That way, no disappointment.
This may sound like opinon, but again I'm arriving at a conclusion based on what I've seen from them for years now. I don't ever see them taking a chance, being bold, pushing the envelope.

"We didn't release dirt because it wasn't perfect, we weren't happy with it". <- this sucks.
"We are releasing dirt in this update. We are not happy with it, it's far from perfect, but we will be improving it little by little with future updates, and we are open to feedback!" <- this is awesome.

We don't see this from them, ever. They don't take chances. Aren't we "the best community ever"? What are they afraid of then? Release something crappy and overtime we can work together with feedback and dev to polish it.

And if you're thinking they will only release stuff once it's great and that's what you prefer and that's how it should be done, you need to understand that means a game full of potential going to waste.
How about removing AI traffic from the game and only releasing it again once it's perfect and they are happy with it? Economy too, money is meaningless, why not remove it all and re-add once it's perfect?

Something incomplete is better than nothing at all and allows us to give feedback and ideas for it to be improved overtime. And it shows initiative, a want, a drive. I have immense respect for that.
And what do I respect most of all? Communication. We have zero.
"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." - Plato
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