[IDEA] 1:5 Map Rescale Mod

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Madkine
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Re: [IDEA] 1:5 Map Rescale Mod

#31 Post by Madkine » 12 Feb 2023 08:19

I'd stay with free if you want to get sufficient traction to move this at all. If you go paid, you lose a bunch of your audience up front (and potential map developers).
Though your biggest hurdle right now is finding someone willing to coordinate and project manage this.
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Shiva
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Re: [IDEA] 1:5 Map Rescale Mod

#32 Post by Shiva » 12 Feb 2023 13:18

I agree with Madkine.
Free.
As long as any SCS assets are used. Including the game engine.
If anyone would want to do this 1:5 rescale. Then the first step would be to adjust the SCS background map.
Either making it 4x bigger. Or if it is possible to use other settings, making it show 4x bigger. <- not my area of expertise, at all.
And then have maps with the grid sector names. Well, maybe not 100% necessary, but could avoid that possible mappers would not override others work.
Road height scale could be important information too.
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Re: [IDEA] 1:5 Map Rescale Mod

#33 Post by Trakaplex » 12 Feb 2023 16:15

Shiva wrote: 12 Feb 2023 13:18 I agree with Madkine.
Free.
As long as any SCS assets are used. Including the game engine.
If anyone would want to do this 1:5 rescale. Then the first step would be to adjust the SCS background map.
Either making it 4x bigger. Or if it is possible to use other settings, making it show 4x bigger. <- not my area of expertise, at all.
And then have maps with the grid sector names. Well, maybe not 100% necessary, but could avoid that possible mappers would not override others work.
Road height scale could be important information too.
That's true. We could appoint 1 or 2 developers per grid sector. SCS has grid sectors for a reason, so the developers won't overlap other areas made by other people, so it won't be a dysfunctional and disjointed map. How would we get road height information as well? A general blank model map? Because there would still be space between the rescaled map this would be really helpful (especially mountain passes). We can learn from SCS by how they dealt with the 1:35 to 1:20 transition for ATS. Only one person modeled all of Denver in vanilla, so I guess we would need more house backdrops, and 10-30 custom buildings. Then we repeat the pattern for other large cities.
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Re: [IDEA] 1:5 Map Rescale Mod

#34 Post by Shiva » 12 Feb 2023 17:40

mappers, developers? rather that a person, or a small group, has a city as their work area. And they themselves, determine who works on what sectors.
The sectors need to be connected to other sectors too.
0, would be sea level. regardles if meters or feet. Maybe even ingame.
1000ft= 304.8000m IRL, would be? what? 200ft =60,96m at 1/5? or?
etc.
SCS ATS map editors background map, has the zero grid "sec+0000+0000" just south of midtown Topeka. East of Emporia. North of Burlington. West of Wellsville.
The north tip of Pomona Lake is at the middle of that sector.

Trakaplex, custom buildings etc, that will add to the size of the mod.
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Re: [IDEA] 1:5 Map Rescale Mod

#35 Post by Trakaplex » 12 Feb 2023 18:52

Here is my estimate for the people maximum:

ATS:

CA, NV, AZ: 870 (due to outdated base map)
NM: 170
OR: 180
WA: 210
UT: 190
ID: 190
CO: 210
WY: 100
MT: 200
TX: 370

=2500 people

ETS2:

Base Map: 800 (due to un-revamped areas having bad quality)
GE: 300 (due to quality)
ScV: 200
VLF: 250
ITA: 190
BtBS: 195
RttBS: 255
IBR: 310

=2500 people

Grand total: 5000 people.
ATS Steam players: 3 million?
ETS2 Steam players: 13 million (confirmed)
(Don't have data on DLC owns)
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Re: [IDEA] 1:5 Map Rescale Mod

#36 Post by Trakaplex » 13 Feb 2023 21:06

Hmm... this could actually be Truck Sim 2.0! After the map gets finished, more weather, seasons, gameplay, etc. We just need to test it in a micromap like 1:5 Wyoming like dust storm on I-80. @Optional Features. When it starts, it will clearly be in the experimental phase.

But as more people become dissuaded with SCS like @55sixxx, the more this mod may rise.
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Re: [IDEA] 1:5 Map Rescale Mod

#37 Post by Shiva » 13 Feb 2023 21:24

Current Wyoming area affects about 52 map sectors. Some have just slices of Wyoming.
40x16=640 map sectors to play with. Well, somewhere around that sum, would be the total area.
But from those 640, I think some sectors might not contain anything?
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Optional Features
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Re: [IDEA] 1:5 Map Rescale Mod

#38 Post by Optional Features » 13 Feb 2023 22:52

Trakaplex wrote: 13 Feb 2023 21:06 Hmm... this could actually be Truck Sim 2.0! After the map gets finished, more weather, seasons, gameplay, etc. We just need to test it in a micromap like 1:5 Wyoming like dust storm on I-80. @Optional Features. When it starts, it will clearly be in the experimental phase.

But as more people become dissuaded with SCS like @55sixxx, the more this mod may rise.
Well, here's the thing: a map of this scale done right could almost be like a new game.

Esterlon is a similar project right now (fictional), and it feels like a real place without being one. I believe it's like 1:3 scale. Then there's the Alaska map which is 1:20, but actually has a transitioning winter and icy roads.

Think of a map like this where there were either several versions or a single version with zones. Mountain passes are always snowy for example, or there's always a dust storm in this spot. It would be far better than what we have default.
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Re: [IDEA] 1:5 Map Rescale Mod

#39 Post by Izmaragon » 13 Feb 2023 23:47

So, a few things; I know from looking around the map sections that a few people have experimented with 1:1 maps...

There's on for Hungary in the ETS2 map subsection that is a 1:1, might be dead by now, but that was quite detailed considering it was probably greater area around Budapest or so...

@Mantrid has considered his own 1:1 [or close to it] map at some point.. The Dalton map mod by @hawkbs is another...

For all the issues that C2C gets from people for not being very detailed in the beginning. It has generated a high number of people contributing to help make C2C better, and while it isn't the most detailed, it does provide a starting point for mapping.. I might talk it up, but I havent really used C2C myself for a year or two now...

As Trakaplex has commented, a decent number of people would be needed for an American 1:1 or 1:5 map...

Just thought I'd mention the various maps that might serve as consideration points and resource references.... Don't discount what people like Mantrid and hawkbs have done to push ATS mapping. I know its not only them, but others as well.

From what I understand from a standpoint of long ago [when I used to make up starcraft maps for myself], its a long process, and even more complex than the old games. It takes time, lots of time. I'm sure a great number of people here who actually work on mods could say that the amount of time estimated to be taken is a great underestimation of the time actually needed....

With that said, I hope you and others can figure out and organize things to the extent that the project gets underway. :)
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Re: [IDEA] 1:5 Map Rescale Mod

#40 Post by Trakaplex » 13 Feb 2023 23:51

Shiva wrote: 13 Feb 2023 21:24 Current Wyoming area affects about 52 map sectors. Some have just slices of Wyoming.
40x16=640 map sectors to play with. Well, somewhere around that sum, would be the total area.
But from those 640, I think some sectors might not contain anything?
Yep, Wyoming is as empty as it is, so some sectors might have nothing. A bigger struggle would be Texas (or even Benelux for ETS2 rescale). Since the map would be in a bigger scale, there would be lots more cities added (even medium-sized). But I think they could handle it. I don't know how big ProMods is though. More space leads to better mapping, since there won't be a hassle trying to choose what can be added or not. I think that's why Texas took three years lol, and to mitigate that just simply follow the map background since it's almost that scale anyway.
Optional Features wrote: 13 Feb 2023 22:52
Trakaplex wrote: 13 Feb 2023 21:06 Hmm... this could actually be Truck Sim 2.0! After the map gets finished, more weather, seasons, gameplay, etc. We just need to test it in a micromap like 1:5 Wyoming like dust storm on I-80. @Optional Features. When it starts, it will clearly be in the experimental phase.

But as more people become dissuaded with SCS like @55sixxx, the more this mod may rise.
Well, here's the thing: a map of this scale done right could almost be like a new game.

Esterlon is a similar project right now (fictional), and it feels like a real place without being one. I believe it's like 1:3 scale. Then there's the Alaska map which is 1:20, but actually has a transitioning winter and icy roads.

Think of a map like this where there were either several versions or a single version with zones. Mountain passes are always snowy for example, or there's always a dust storm in this spot. It would be far better than what we have default.
Snowy mountains would be incredibly easy. Although complex weather systems would definitely need the newer engine. Although dust storms and landslides would be easy to model as well like the tumbleweeds near Bakersfield in SCS's current base map.
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